Can an electrical inspector fail us for work that we didn't do that already passed inspection?

W

WattsHerName

Member
Location
Anne Arundel County, Maryland
Occupation
Bidness Owner
We installed an EV charger. Inspector failed it saying "Service load calculation required for additional load of 60 amp EV charger. Raceway required for open conductors to surge protector( see photos in documents)."

The surge protector was installed in 2019 & passed inspection.

Load is way under just by looking at it but ok, we'll send one to him. But is he allowed to fail our EV charger inspection for something we didn't do that already passed inspection?

My husband's the Master Electrician, I do the business stuff, so I'm not super familiar with all of this...
 
I wouldn't think he could fail you for your work unless it was deficient, but they certainly have the authority to call out gross violations when they see them. I've actually made a good amount of money from inspectors requiring other work be brought up to code when they came to inspect something new I had done. It kinda sucks for the customer, but some stuff should be repaired.
 
CoolWill said:
I wouldn't think he could fail you for your work unless it was deficient, but they certainly have the authority to call out gross violations when they see them. I've actually made a good amount of money from inspectors requiring other work be brought up to code when they came to inspect something new I had done. It kinda sucks for the customer, but some stuff should be repaired.
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Kind of the way it generally works out around here. If what they are seeing is not part of the scope of work with what you were doing, they can't really fail the inspection for your work. If enough concern over what is wrong they pretty much have to take it up with the owner. Though the contractor involved may be the first to mention anything to that contractor shouldn't be forced to fix something that has no association with what they were there for if owner doesn't want to pay them. That owner needs some encouragement from the AHJ, like a threat to issue a disconnect order if it is something dangerous enough to warrant doing so, then customer might be more motivated to pay the contractor to fix it. They don't issue disconnect orders very often here, and usually give owner some time to comply when an issue is found. Has to be pretty serious problem to get a rather quick disconnect order.
 
1. An AHJ is not legally bound to respect previous inspections that were erroneously approved. In fact, quite the opposite. Not likely to be the same inspector, and the old inspector may no longer be employed by the AHJ.

2. The inspector can require the item to be fixed, just not necessarily by you. If you won't do it, the owner will be ultimately the one who the inspector can take to court.

3. It would be difficult to prove the surge protector was there in 2019 when the inspector allegedly approved it.

Inspectors will often write the electrical contractor a violation even if they didn't do the work because it is convenient and has a high success rate. The electrical contractor on site is normally the one the owner would hire to fix the violation anyway, and if not they will normally at least tell the owner what is going on. The minority of cases where that is not the case are not worth the inspectors wasted time when that is the case.
 
NEC Inspector said:
Inspectors will often write the electrical contractor a violation even if they didn't do the work.
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Makes sense. Homeowner likely is unaware of authority hierarchy and just thinks oh no we failed the inspection. The homeowner also knows what you were contracted to do and if it was irrelevant to the violation. Plus the inspector is not really throwing the EC under the bus (as HO and EC both know scope of work). Worst case is if HO gets froggy and starts barking up your money tree. In which case what Mr. Dungar said^^^
 
I'm gonna give a simple, real world answer to the question...

Yes they can.

Especially if it's a glaring code violation staring everyone right in the face, in such a manner that clearly indicates work done relatively recently without a permit or inspection. Or the inspector was grossly negligent to miss it.
 
This is why your contract should include a cause exempting you from responsibility for rectifying existing conditions to pass inspection, and why any payment tied to passing inspection should be relatively low.
It's the AHJ's way of holding the property owner accountable, but in principle it shouldn't become a huge problem for you as a contractor.
 
Not exactly pertinent to this discussion but OSHA showed up at a Hospital where we were upgrading a radiology suite. The parking lot was also being renovated by others not associated with our project. The parking lot EC had left covers off 480V parking lot pole lights, well the OSHA inspectors went off the rails and I was called at home at around 6:00 PM telling me I needed to be back at the project to put covers on the poles, I proceeded to tell them we had nothing to do with the parking lot, so the clown proceeded to tell us it was our responsibility since we parked our vehicles in the parking lot. We laughed and told him he was out to lunch and if the owner wanted us to take care of it we would be happy to for a fee. I remember the parking lot contractor was back to put the covers on and received a fine.
 
If not an install on a new construction, I'm not sure how the inspector ever got involved in the first place. :unsure:
Doesn't seem there was a service upgrade or anything like that where he needed to be contacted.

Jap>
 
CoolWill said:
I wouldn't think he could fail you for your work unless it was deficient, but they certainly have the authority to call out gross violations when they see them. I've actually made a good amount of money from inspectors requiring other work be brought up to code when they came to inspect something new I had done. It kinda sucks for the customer, but some stuff should be repaired.
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There are two separate issues at play here. One is the OP's permitted work and the other is an alleged violation from previous work. Unless local regulations permit it, an AHJ can't legally refuse to pass your work due to someone else's failure to perform. UNLESS, you had to touch the previous work as part of your own. Then you own them both. That's the theory.

The reality is that push come to shove, if you go to the mat with the inspector, he can say "Fine, during the inspection for the permitted work I observed a condition that is immediately dangerous to life and health. I will, as I am permitted to, notify the building inspector who will then come down and slap a notice to vacate on the structure and a notice to correct. Have a nice day." It's STILL not your problem, but your customer is unlikely to thank you for it.
 
gadfly56 said:
...Unless local regulations permit it, an AHJ can't legally refuse to pass your work due to someone else's failure to perform. UNLESS, you had to touch the previous work as part of your own. Then you own them both. That's the theory.

...
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What you say is reasonable and decent and for some AHJs that simply isn't enough. I've never been able to appeal to any written policy on this when an AHJ does this sort of thing. Sometimes they would pass our permit once someone pulled a separate permit to fix the existing violation. That's about the best outcome I've seen when an AHJ behaves like that. Lots of other times I've said 'that's not part of our scope of work' and the inspector just drops it, but in a couple jurisdictions they typically don't and that's just how it is.
 
NEC Inspector said:
1. An AHJ is not legally bound to respect previous inspections that were erroneously approved. In fact, quite the opposite. Not likely to be the same inspector, and the old inspector may no longer be employed by the AHJ.

2. The inspector can require the item to be fixed, just not necessarily by you. If you won't do it, the owner will be ultimately the one who the inspector can take to court.

3. It would be difficult to prove the surge protector was there in 2019 when the inspector allegedly approved it.

Inspectors will often write the electrical contractor a violation even if they didn't do the work because it is convenient and has a high success rate. The electrical contractor on site is normally the one the owner would hire to fix the violation anyway, and if not they will normally at least tell the owner what is going on. The minority of cases where that is not the case are not worth the inspectors wasted time when that is the case.
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That’s a great way to throw responsibility on someone else. So now the EC has to be the bad man and explain. I have had that happen to me and I have to explain mine is fine but this other crap that was suppose to be passed is now an issue. Couple of them I told to get a lawyer. AHJ passed it after that.

It’s the AHJ job- if they messed up and missed it it’s still their fault. Another government entity trying to kick the can to someone else.

Luckily the normal AHJ around here understand it’s not my fault and get the balls to actually talk to the owner themselves about the issue

If they can approve something and then next minute it’s not okay sounds like another dysfunctional entity that should be done away with since it can’t do it’s function properly
 
roger said:
Not exactly pertinent to this discussion but OSHA showed up at a Hospital where we were upgrading a radiology suite. The parking lot was also being renovated by others not associated with our project. The parking lot EC had left covers off 480V parking lot pole lights, well the OSHA inspectors went off the rails and I was called at home at around 6:00 PM telling me I needed to be back at the project to put covers on the poles, I proceeded to tell them we had nothing to do with the parking lot, so the clown proceeded to tell us it was our responsibility since we parked our vehicles in the parking lot. We laughed and told him he was out to lunch and if the owner wanted us to take care of it we would be happy to for a fee. I remember the parking lot contractor was back to put the covers on and received a fine.
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Was there anything energized behind those missing covers? If work being done there wasn't completed maybe not? If they simply forgot to put some covers on when finished... I guess maybe inspector has something to stand on there, just not with someone that wasn't involved, should at least been the owner or maybe the GC that gets the call in this case.

And why was non military or national security type Fed gov employee still working at 6:00 PM in the first place?
 
kwired said:
Was there anything energized behind those missing covers? If work being done there wasn't completed maybe not? If they simply forgot to put some covers on when finished... I guess maybe inspector has something to stand on there, just not with someone that wasn't involved, should at least been the owner or maybe the GC that gets the call in this case.

And why was non military or national security type Fed gov employee still working at 6:00 PM in the first place?
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You haven't been on many large commercial projects have you? All major subs will have to submit a contact list in case of emergency's and since I was the PM for the electrical my name was first on the list.

There is also state OSHA which was the case here and like federal OSHA they show up at all hours, they weren't there looking at only construction personnel, they also were looking at the Hospital itself which was the primary reason they were there.

And since some of the lights were on it was a good indicator that power was on.
 
kwired said:
And why was non military or national security type Fed gov employee still working at 6:00 PM in the first place?
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1. Cause they're overbooked like all the rest of us sorry plebs
2. That sweet sweet overtime pay
3. Tip-off by disgruntled .....
 
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AC\DC said:
If they can approve something and then next minute it’s not okay sounds like another dysfunctional entity that should be done away with since it can’t do it’s function properly
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If we can also get rid of the jerk who installed it wrong to begin with, it's a deal. I agree with your sentiment, it is way too common for inspection departments to have incompetent inspectors and cause these problems.
AC\DC said:
That’s a great way to throw responsibility on someone else. So now the EC has to be the bad man and explain. I have had that happen to me and I have to explain mine is fine but this other crap that was suppose to be passed is now an issue.
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It's only that way if the inspector and the contractor make it that way. 99% of the time, the inspector just needs to communicate properly and the EC has no issues with it. The rest is just paperwork - the inspector has to write the issue down somewhere, and the most convenient place is on the permit that is already open. Especially since the EC is normally going to be the one handling the issue. Unfortunately, inspectors who communicate properly much rarer than they should be.

I had one the other day when I found work that had been done without a permit last year while inspecting new work that was done by a licensed contractor under permit and inspection. I called the electrician and talked to him about it, told him that it wasn't necessarily his problem but it gives him the opportunity to have a bid ready and it's gonna be a major pain on everyone else if he doesn't. He was totally cool with it.

If he wasn't, now I would have to hunt down the owner, threaten court action, drag the situation out for many months and unnecessary $$$. Quite apart from the pain and suffering aspect, my time is paid for by the taxpayer, so those dollars are also unnecessarily wasted.
 
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