GC wont provide blueprints and lying to homeowner

A

alyoshak24

Member
Location
Chicago
Occupation
Electrician
Hello All,

It pains me to write this, and on a sunday at that, however i refuse to be a victim of my labor. I am posting this hoping that someone experienced a similar situation and took active measures to protect themselves.

Background: I am the licensed electrician on permit for a village/city in illinois doing the rough/final for a* small addition on a home. I responded to an add on Home Depot from a GC that was bidding on this project. (I bid on this project last summer June-ish, was my first year having a license and i low-balled myself to get the job MISTAKE #1). Timeline is as follows:
  1. I bid based off a screenshot provided July 2024 of the reflected ceiling and power plan on the addition.
  2. Architect who drafted the blueprints was fired by the homeowner around August/September because he was unlicensed and shady. GC did not provide a copy of any alterations of the original blueprints i quoted.
  3. SEP 2024, i sent the village my notarized LOI that reflected the original blueprints provided to me by GC (All communication i CC'd the GC and / or his assistant for transparency)
  4. Job was suppose to start late fall of 2024 but got hold up, finally poured the concrete. i just started roughing the electrical last month and am 88% done (I have not wired.
  5. GC provided materials since this was our first big project together and both our company names were on the permit etc etc. I have done small jobs for him here and there that never exceeded 400$ but the total for this job was $6K
  6. GC updates me that some rooms are to be reframed per homeowner request and to rough the new rooms and to compare total openings from original bid to updated framing and we figure out the difference, he pins the blueprints with hand drawn updates of the new walls in the hallway. Red Flag 1 (I shouldve stopped right there and then to ask for the updated blueprints that were stamped)
  7. After i rough a roughing 50%, the homeowner comes out and talks to me personally and points out that she (Sweet old lady) wants floor outlets, extra outdoor outlets, and items that werent reflected on the original plan in addition to repairing some outlets with no power and a utility line the excavators Fu**ed when they poured concrete. I say no problem ill bring it up to the GC to figure out some numbers, she said that its included in the original scope of work. Red Flag 2
  8. I bring it up to GC and he looks dumbfounded asking why im charging him more if the homeowner requests are less than whats being removed from the blueprint. At his point i notice that he genuinely looks confused which confuses me. I stop work and tell him that i need to take inventory of the total original counts vs updated reframed counts he pointed out. I go home and literally draw, color code and lineout, and write all outdated openings and add new openings so even a child can understand. In the end the new drawings reflected a total of 2 additional openings. Which still equaled out a deficit due to the massive amount of extras that homeowner requested.
  9. I email and text the GC to review the updated opening count and to please reach out if there are any questions or concerns. The next time we both are at the jobsite together he goes over and reviews the outlets, switches cans etc and he tells me that i am charging him for items when the plans state different and that there are 12x additional ceiling CANs that are included in the blueprint that the homeowner doesnt want.
    1. I Tell hime that my original LOI only includes 7x total CAN lights and he argues that i am charging him for 19x Total CAN lights. I tell him that i emailed over the LOI, all timestamped emails of any numbers we discussed and i even reference the original blueprint/screenshot of the blueprint he provided me to base my estimate off of. He states that he sent me an updated bluerprint with the new cieiling plan, so i go through all my phone messages and emails while he is there and i tell him that i never received a digital nor a physical copy of the blueprints that he is holding in his hands. I resend him all the timestamps and proof that my bid was based off the original screenshot.
    2. He says that he needs to review this with his assistant. Next time we talk over the phone he says that i quoted him for a bid that included 19x CAN lights so i requested for proof and it has been a week since my request and i know that he DOESNt HAVE ANY proof otherwise i wouldve submitted a change order.
  10. Now all my spidey senses are ringing and i call the village and go in person to the building to ask to get a copy of the blueprints. They refuse to provide me a copy even after i provided them with proof that i am the electrical contractor. The rep was kind enough to help me, she suggested i submitt a FOIA request. I asked her what are my options because the homeowner is requesting an inspection to release funds. the rep told me that in her system that are no permits issued for to perform any rough mechanical work, only permits issued are phased permits for the concrete pour footings and stated that techinically they framed, installed rough plumbing and electrical illegally. At this point im furious.
  11. I go to homeowner as a last resort without GC knowledge and i explain to them my situation. They understand but i also see concern, worry and a fading distrust in their body language because from where their standing, this is putting a major halt in their project. They tell me to continue to finish the project and that they will pay me out of pocket for the extras and utility repair but that they cannot get involved between the GC and I.

I am reaching out to the Mike Holt Community because i still believe in giving it all you got at work, providing top quality and always delivering for your clients and customers, however i refuse to be a victim of free work and i refuse to be taken advantage of. Do any of you have suggestions, legal, personal, or anything that can help my situation out ?

I have already completed and piped 88% of the work and mounted to sub-panel. The project total is only $6K but its still money that i worked very hard for. I do know if hiring a lawyer is worth it, and even though it is not the homeowners fault i still feel like i need to at least remove evertyhing that i installed to prove a point (obviously with the sheriff present)
 
If nothing else, investigate putting a lien on the property; there are plenty of threads on these forums about liens but remember that every state/county/etc can be different.

I'm also a little confused as at the beginning you say "on permit" then later "no permits issued for to perform any rough mechanical work, only permits issued are phased permits for the concrete pour ", so one of the first things is to figure out where there is actually an electrical permit and whether your name is on it.. if no then stop all work until that's resolved.
 
This is why, I changed to HVAC (Heating Ventilation Air Conditioning) Maintenace Contracts and delt only with the owner. Filed a Mechanics Lien against a General Contractor and it took me five years and five different law firms to settle in the hallway outside the courtroom, on the trial day. The settlement covered my legal fees, but not the stress of dealing with this every day for five years.

Bidding is like that old sitcom "Name That Tune". Can you name that tune in three notes !
 
My opinion is worth exactly what you’ve paid for it, but here it is.

1-Do not go above/around the GC. The HO is NOT your client, the GC is. I say this from the perspective of being both a licensed general contractor, who subs a lot of work, and a licensed electrical contractor who works as a sub. I even sub grading and framing type work for other GCs.

My subs are not allowed to discuss the project without me present. If a sub ever confers with a HO behind my back, they will be fired on the spot and will not get further work from me. As a sub, I do not discuss the project with the HO unless the GC is present, or has specifically told me to discuss XYZ with them, let me know what they said, and then proceed.

2- It sounds like you still need to work some things out with the GC. From reading your post, it sounds like you both have a legitimate position, and you need to get to the bottom of it. Might not be time to walk yet.

3- All proposals should reference a set of dated plans. In the absence of plans, you will need to itemized everything. If there are changes/addenda, reference the plans and “addenda 1, 2, and 3,” etc. Very clear communications and expectations up front can avoid 99% of conflict.

4- I would not continue the project with the promise that the HO will pay you directly. That is crapshow waiting to start. And it would directly violate several clauses in my contracts, whether your GC has them or not I don’t know, but if he’s smart he should.
 
zbang said:
If nothing else, investigate putting a lien on the property; there are plenty of threads on these forums about liens but remember that every state/county/etc can be different.

I'm also a little confused as at the beginning you say "on permit" then later "no permits issued for to perform any rough mechanical work, only permits issued are phased permits for the concrete pour ", so one of the first things is to figure out where there is actually an electrical permit and whether your name is on it.. if no then stop all work until that's resolved.
Click to expand...
So the only permit that is active is the "phase permit" is what the buildings rep told me and that the permit allows only the concrete footings pour. That permit does not give the green-light to frame, or any mechanical's. When the GC told me the addition was framed and ready to be roughed then i just automatically assumed the permits to do so were up to date. However, even if the homeowner requests a rough electrical inspection, the village wont be able to accommodate the request due to a permit never being issued for rough mechanical work.
 
ramsy said:
Pay you what, without a contract, or change order?
Click to expand...
I have a contract, Letter of intent, estimate and change order. The 1st three all that have been submitted to the village prior to any work being commenced. We were going back and forth because the village rejected my original paperwork because it was not on company letterhead/stationary. I have email transcript with all of this information.
 
AC\DC said:
Get paid before you proceed and just walk. If not, have you at least got some money to account for work you’ve done so far.
Click to expand...
I just submitted the first invoice an hour ago, the GC paid for all the rough materials with the exception of the subpanel, 200FT of 1/2EMT and 100FT of 1" EMT and feeder conductors.
 
mtnelect said:
This is why, I changed to HVAC (Heating Ventilation Air Conditioning) Maintenace Contracts and delt only with the owner. Filed a Mechanics Lien against a General Contractor and it took me five years and five different law firms to settle in the hallway outside the courtroom, on the trial day. The settlement covered my legal fees, but not the stress of dealing with this every day for five years.

Bidding is like that old sitcom "Name That Tune". Can you name that tune in three notes !
Click to expand...
I am thinking about just filing against the homeowner directly because the GC is refusing to communicate and provide updates on the project blueprints / SOW. That way i can at least out him to the homeowner directly and put pressure on him via the homeowner
 
Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:
My opinion is worth exactly what you’ve paid for it, but here it is.

1-Do not go above/around the GC. The HO is NOT your client, the GC is. I say this from the perspective of being both a licensed general contractor, who subs a lot of work, and a licensed electrical contractor who works as a sub. I even sub grading and framing type work for other GCs.

My subs are not allowed to discuss the project without me present. If a sub ever confers with a HO behind my back, they will be fired on the spot and will not get further work from me. As a sub, I do not discuss the project with the HO unless the GC is present, or has specifically told me to discuss XYZ with them, let me know what they said, and then proceed.

2- It sounds like you still need to work some things out with the GC. From reading your post, it sounds like you both have a legitimate position, and you need to get to the bottom of it. Might not be time to walk yet.

3- All proposals should reference a set of dated plans. In the absence of plans, you will need to itemized everything. If there are changes/addenda, reference the plans and “addenda 1, 2, and 3,” etc. Very clear communications and expectations up front can avoid 99% of conflict.

4- I would not continue the project with the promise that the HO will pay you directly. That is crapshow waiting to start. And it would directly violate several clauses in my contracts, whether your GC has them or not I don’t know, but if he’s smart he should.
Click to expand...
My subs are not allowed to discuss the project without me present. If a sub ever confers with a HO behind my back, they will be fired on the spot and will not get further work from me. As a sub, I do not discuss the project with the HO unless the GC is present, or has specifically told me to discuss XYZ with them, let me know what they said, and then proceed.
i fully agree, i DO NOT want to communicate with the homeowner unless the GC is present however the HO came to me while GC was away. I brought these updates to GC. GC confused, throws a fit and claims i owe him credit for blueprints that have heavily updated SOW. I Ask GC to provide updated SOW/BLUEPRINTS because I am basing my work and invoices off original. GC keeps on delegating to his admin that she will send me evidence of me receiving the updated prints with reflected new SOW. Weeks pass by and no new updates. I go to village to schedule a rough and request updated blueprints. Village denies request and instructs me to fill FOIA. Village states that no arrangements have been made to start mechanical or framing. Livid i go to HO since they have updated prints. I tell them that i cannot get any info from GC and he is refusing to release new prints and i have no other option because i tried to retrieve from village. I have two entities that wont release a copy of ANY updated prints. i still have Version 1 of prints. However Version1 of prints is outdated per GC but GC wont provide new prints. I inform the HO if this exact situation and timeline and apologize for me backdooring GC but i cannot in good conscious continue to maintain schedule until GC plays ball. Till this day, mothers day 2025 i have yet to receive an email or text with new Blueprint files.....i am very reasonable man but at this point i feel that GC is intentionally witholding information for messing up other parts of the project and trying to recoupe with my labor without my knowledge. That is why he keeps on giving me the runaround. for the record this GC has not been a responsible GC, i believe i am the only contractor on the original permit because i reached out to the plumber and other company who's name was on the project since last year and BOTH have stated that the GC informed them that they lost the bid......that means the plumbers that i saw were working under the registered plumbers license. The plumber who disclosed that to me stated that it was a nightmare working with that GC, he was unorganized and couldnt remember any conversattion or email with his SUBS.

It sounds like you still need to work some things out with the GC. From reading your post, it sounds like you both have a legitimate position, and you need to get to the bottom of it. Might not be time to walk yet.

I am trying everything to get to the bottom of it with GC. He does not want to email me any updates. I have email and text transcripts that i can provide and he still refuses to disclose any pertinent information, the only logical reason is because he doesnt want the price to rise even with all these extra items the HO requests and the supposed ceiling plan that has an additional 19x CAN lights.

3- All proposals should reference a set of dated plans. In the absence of plans, you will need to itemized everything. If there are changes/addenda, reference the plans and “addenda 1, 2, and 3,” etc. Very clear communications and expectations up front can avoid 99% of conflict.

i have provided itemized original LOI with updated itemized color coded and strike through texts to display difference between original bid and new work and clearly pointed out the price difference to my favor. He denies that he owes more money and claims that the update prints (mind you that he refuses to email/text a copy over) actually include much more labor. I have dated all my paperwork and corresponding emails of that paperwork in a manner an 8 year old can decipher and still GC refuses to acknowledge any of the logged data

4- I would not continue the project with the promise that the HO will pay you directly. That is crapshow waiting to start. And it would directly violate several clauses in my contracts, whether your GC has them or not I don’t know, but if he’s smart he should.

GC never provided any contracts, bank agreements, holdings account etc to me, i gave him my contract and LOI/SOW prior to starting work and he signed it. I dont even know if the HO is paying the project out of pocket or with a loan.

** Another item that raised my antenna is, during installation the HO's daughter came out and spoke with me and asking me to clarify what i was installing because it deviated from the blueprints that she held and clearly told GC about. She pointed out certain openings that were uncessary, and other extras she wanted. After i told her that i need to go over the details and pricing with GC, she said asked if i was truly the electrician on the project and that i was not going to be leaving after the rough because she overheard/was present when GC was having different contractors to finish parts of the framing without original framing contractors knowledge and assumed that the same was going to happen to me..i told her not to worry since my name is on the permit/project and the work is under my license.


I appreciate you taking the time out of your day to help me out, i am not perfect but i try to be fair especially in our line of business, we put our blood sweat and tears into this, day in and day out and people still go out of their way to treat us like were idiots
 
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zbang said:
If nothing else, investigate putting a lien on the property; there are plenty of threads on these forums about liens but remember that every state/county/etc can be different.

I'm also a little confused as at the beginning you say "on permit" then later "no permits issued for to perform any rough mechanical work, only permits issued are phased permits for the concrete pour ", so one of the first things is to figure out where there is actually an electrical permit and whether your name is on it.. if no then stop all work until that's resolved.
Click to expand...
I am filing one as we speak
 
alyoshak24 said:
Hello All,

It pains me to write this, and on a sunday at that, however i refuse to be a victim of my labor. I am posting this hoping that someone experienced a similar situation and took active measures to protect themselves.

Background: I am the licensed electrician on permit for a village/city in illinois doing the rough/final for a* small addition on a home. I responded to an add on Home Depot from a GC that was bidding on this project. (I bid on this project last summer June-ish, was my first year having a license and i low-balled myself to get the job MISTAKE #1). Timeline is as follows:
  1. I bid based off a screenshot provided July 2024 of the reflected ceiling and power plan on the addition.
Click to expand...
Did you get ink signature signed acceptance of the bid?
alyoshak24 said:
  1. Architect who drafted the blueprints was fired by the homeowner around August/September because he was unlicensed and shady. GC did not provide a copy of any alterations of the original blueprints i quoted.
Click to expand...
I rarely here of architects being involved in a residential remodel. Often its unlicensed designers. Here they don't seem to requires a license unless its a complex structure.
alyoshak24 said:
  1. SEP 2024, i sent the village my notarized LOI that reflected the original blueprints provided to me by GC (All communication i CC'd the GC and / or his assistant for transparency)
  2. Job was suppose to start late fall of 2024 but got hold up, finally poured the concrete. i just started roughing the electrical last month and am 88% done (I have not wired.
  3. GC provided materials since this was our first big project together and both our company names were on the permit etc etc. I have done small jobs for him here and there that never exceeded 400$ but the total for this job was $6K
  4. GC updates me that some rooms are to be reframed per homeowner request and to rough the new rooms and to compare total openings from original bid to updated framing and we figure out the difference, he pins the blueprints with hand drawn updates of the new walls in the hallway. Red Flag 1 (I shouldve stopped right there and then to ask for the updated blueprints that were stamped)
Click to expand...
Rarely do residential remodels follow the plans I am given.
alyoshak24 said:
  1. After i rough a roughing 50%, the homeowner comes out and talks to me personally and points out that she (Sweet old lady) wants floor outlets, extra outdoor outlets, and items that werent reflected on the original plan in addition to repairing some outlets with no power and a utility line the excavators Fu**ed when they poured concrete. I say no problem ill bring it up to the GC to figure out some numbers, she said that its included in the original scope of work. Red Flag 2
Click to expand...
Happens all the time
alyoshak24 said:
  1. I bring it up to GC and he looks dumbfounded asking why im charging him more if the homeowner requests are less than whats being removed from the blueprint. At his point i notice that he genuinely looks confused which confuses me. I stop work and tell him that i need to take inventory of the total original counts vs updated reframed counts he pointed out. I go home and literally draw, color code and lineout, and write all outdated openings and add new openings so even a child can understand. In the end the new drawings reflected a total of 2 additional openings. Which still equaled out a deficit due to the massive amount of extras that homeowner requested.
I email and text the GC to review the updated opening count and to please reach out if there are any questions or concerns. The next time we both are at the jobsite together he goes over and reviews the outlets, switches cans etc and he tells me that i am charging him for items when the plans state different and that there are 12x additional ceiling CANs that are included in the blueprint that the homeowner doesnt want.
  1. I Tell hime that my original LOI only includes 7x total CAN lights and he argues that i am charging him for 19x Total CAN lights. I tell him that i emailed over the LOI, all timestamped emails of any numbers we discussed and i even reference the original blueprint/screenshot of the blueprint he provided me to base my estimate off of. He states that he sent me an updated bluerprint with the new cieiling plan, so i go through all my phone messages and emails while he is there and i tell him that i never received a digital nor a physical copy of the blueprints that he is holding in his hands. I resend him all the timestamps and proof that my bid was based off the original screenshot.
  2. He says that he needs to review this with his assistant. Next time we talk over the phone he says that i quoted him for a bid that included 19x CAN lights so i requested for proof and it has been a week since my request and i know that he DOESNt HAVE ANY proof otherwise i wouldve submitted a change order.
Click to expand...
I'd leave it at that then.
alyoshak24 said:



  1. Now all my spidey senses are ringing and i call the village and go in person to the building to ask to get a copy of the blueprints
Click to expand...
Wast of time
alyoshak24 said:
  1. I go to homeowner as a last resort without GC knowledge and i explain to them my situation. They understand but i also see concern, worry and a fading distrust in their body language because from where their standing, this is putting a major halt in their project. They tell me to continue to finish the project and that they will pay me out of pocket for the extras and utility repair but that they cannot get involved between the GC and I.
Click to expand...
Here I'd say ok and get a time and material contract in writing with home owner.
alyoshak24 said:
I am reaching out to the Mike Holt Community because i still believe in giving it all you got at work, providing top quality and always delivering for your clients and customers, however i refuse to be a victim of free work and i refuse to be taken advantage of. Do any of you have suggestions, legal, personal, or anything that can help my situation out ?

I have already completed and piped 88% of the work and mounted to sub-panel. The project total is only $6K but its still money that i worked very hard for. I do know if hiring a lawyer is worth it, and even though it is not the homeowners fault i still feel like i need to at least remove evertyhing that i installed to prove a point (obviously with the sheriff present)
Click to expand...
 
Now happily retired but had my share with questionable GC'S, homeowners & businesses. At one of the many great IAEI meetings that I attended they had a lawyer give an outstanding presentation on how to protect yourself. His father was a contractor who had his share of problems over the years. He recommended that on large jobs to find a lawyer that is versed on contracts & proposals to go over it. I would recommend if possible to not energize the sub panel that you installed and take the cover home with you. ( remove wires from breaker that feeds it ). I converted a house into three apartments with a fourth meter ( house meter ). I put in my proposal that after four meter cans & four circuit breaker panels were I stalled needed a 35% payment. GC only gave me a song & A dance then only a small.psyment. I took the four circuit breaker covers from unenergized panels home and told him that I would not be able to return until he came thru with the money. Also had my helper install NM cables to some of the apartments. As luck would have it the panel manufacturer change the design and covers that he tried to purchase to finish the job were unavailable. I canceled the permit and notified my inspector about that. A GC that I got along with great went bankrupt in the middle of a large home remodeling in the middle of the job and told the homeowner that if he could not pay.me to finish that I was done. He claimed he paid the GC most of the money and would sue me if I did not finish and refused to pay me. Told him that I was a subcontractor and good luck with the law suite. Short time later he had a lawyer call me to try to finish the work without getting any more money. Told him nope. Canceled that permit and it took the homeowner over two years guessing to raise money to have the work completed.
 
alyoshak24 said:
i low-balled myself to get the job
Click to expand...
And you got a bottom barrel GC that is a walking nightmare. I hope at that price that this isn't that big of an addition. The fact you can fit 19 can lights in it has me thinking you bid this as charity. Charity for some GC you got from home depot...

Just learn from mistake #1 and the rest hopefully won't be relevant knowledge again soon.

Personally, I wouldn't care about burning a relationship with the GC, and if you can contract directly with HO without breaking his contract, do it. Like you need to care about being principled with every Bob's GC @ Big Box out there. By the way, your time in T&M should be at least $120 if you consider yourself straight bottom of the barrel. $150 preferably. Markup materials 30-50%. You might actually make more from the HO's COs than the original contract. Alternatively, use straight MLU numbers after estimating the remaining work if you dislike T&M.

My extremely limited exposure to remodel GCs has me sticking to service for the foreseeable future.
I feel like if I spent the amount of time you did just to write the job up like that I'd be due whatever you netted.
 
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ramsy said:
How does that work?

What is MLU?
Click to expand...
A) because I'm reading between the lines and it seems he sold his labor very cheaply. If the HO wants an additional 12 cans and a bunch of extra receptacles, if he does straight T&M as I indicated, it'll probably total more net income.

B) Manual of Labor Units by NECA. Generally very loose numbers that wouldn't win a competitive bid, but I've heard they're often used 1:1 for all COs for specifically that reason (ie: you aren't competitively bidding anymore, and it's a direct industry reference if people claim you're cooking numbers). Personally, I rarely do COs in service, but in this case pad as much as possible to make up for the low starting income and bs.
 
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