"Storable" Hot Tub?

N

NoahsArc

Senior Member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
Residential EC
Can I pretty please get a clear definition of what "storable" means in 680, because I'm not sure my common definition is what the code considers "storable", or maybe it is...

If it's a prepackaged unit that you lay on a patio, is that storable or merely "self-contained" (also where is "self-contained" referenced in 680?)?

Also:
  1. does the part IV disconnect need to be toggle/lever style, or can it be a pull-out air condition sort?
    680.41 "A clearly labeled emergency shutoff or control switch...."
  2. finding a sub to trench. Who am I looking for, landscapers? How much of a PITA is it to trench 60ft on your own (power tool assisted)?
  3. Install instructions state to use #6 wire. It's a 40A circuit, with #8 already being <2% Vdrop. I guess I must do this as it's instructions?
Culprit in question:
time machine.png
 
Is the hot tub cord and plug? i would say that if it's hardwired it would not be considered storable.

1. we usually use the style that are breaker enclosures with a GFCI breaker of the correct size, i wouldn't personally use the A/C style pullouts just for ease of use for the customer since it is supposed to be for emergency operation, but i am not sure if they would qualify for a hot tub emergency disconnect
2. if we dont wanna dig (which i never do) we either ask the homeowner if they want to save money and dig, or we have a local landscaper that digs anything else for us. make sure to give them a tape measure and tell them how to deep... landscaper might not know how to locate any lines underground so make sure you take care of that if you are digging deep enough
3. yeah just follow instructions, at least you can take comfort that the manufacturer has now forced you to make it future proof if they ever get a bigger hot tub
 
dpb said:
Is the hot tub cord and plug? i would say that if it's hardwired it would not be considered storable.

1. we usually use the style that are breaker enclosures with a GFCI breaker of the correct size, i wouldn't personally use the A/C style pullouts just for ease of use for the customer since it is supposed to be for emergency operation, but i am not sure if they would qualify for a hot tub emergency disconnect
2. if we dont wanna dig (which i never do) we either ask the homeowner if they want to save money and dig, or we have a local landscaper that digs anything else for us. make sure to give them a tape measure and tell them how to deep... landscaper might not know how to locate any lines underground so make sure you take care of that if you are digging deep enough
3. yeah just follow instructions, at least you can take comfort that the manufacturer has now forced you to make it future proof if they ever get a bigger hot tub
Click to expand...
Thanks. Yeah, I'm figuring as a hardwire it's not going to be storable, and unforunately they have gazebo pedestals within the 30" perimeter, so it's going to require tearing up the entire patio to get a ground ring under there :confused:

I would prefer to have the GFI function at the panel, ahead of the underground feed to the disconnect. My reading is that a residential disconnect doesn't need to be a switch, I think I answered my own question after a few minutes of digging, and it's just for maintenance to have a handy way to kill power.

My plan is to GFI at the panel, bring extra #12 circuit for an outlet, stub up about 10ft away at a masonry pony wall, put in the convenience outlet and AC-style disconnect, then stub back down and run the feed up preferably under the unit and transition to LMFC for the final connection. Can't figure a better way to do it. Never done one before, hence my hesitance on all the rules (680 is a maze).
 
Ah yeah I was thinking of next to the house type hot tub with the GFCI located at the disconnect before going under ground. Nothin wrong with a little extra protection on the underground lines by putting it at the panel. Check 680.42 (B) to see if a equipotential bonding of perimeter surfaces is required.
 
Swimming pools can be storage or permanent.

Hot tub/spas are either self-contained or permanent.

Different water containing items with different NEC requirements.
 
NoahsArc said:
There are masonry pedestals with a metal gazebo within 18" of the hot tub though... does that not trigger (B)(4)?
Click to expand...
I guess it would, unless you elevate the spa to 28" above the top of the pedestals. Although if the gazebo itself is considered a "perimeter surface", even that wouldn't work.

Cheers, Wayne
 
If the tub is self-contained, it doesn't require the equipotential bond wire around the tub. I see by the picture it is a self-contained.
So if it meets the requirements in 680.42(A) & (B), it doesn't need the EB.

I would not put the GFCI in the panel that feeds the tub for a few reasons.

it would be a hassle to go all the way back to the panel should the breaker trip

there could be small leaks in the feed to the tub, they would be cumulative and add up to the trip threshold of the breaker

You can get a spa panel with a 50A GFCI breaker about as cheap as buying just a GFCI breaker.
You mentioned a circuit for the required receptacle, this spa disconnect has extra spaces so you could run the 20A receptacle off of that. All you need is the #6 conductors (ungrounded & grounded) and a #10 EGC run to the spa disconnect.

Use Liquid Tight nonmetallic conduit from the disconnect to the tub. You also use the LTFNMC for the receptacle.

You do not need the emergency disconnect for a dwelling hot tub, that is for nondwelling.
 
Little Bill said:
If the tub is self-contained, it doesn't require the equipotential bond wire around the tub. I see by the picture it is a self-contained.
So if it meets the requirements in 680.42(A) & (B), it doesn't need the EB.

I would not put the GFCI in the panel that feeds the tub for a few reasons.

it would be a hassle to go all the way back to the panel should the breaker trip

there could be small leaks in the feed to the tub, they would be cumulative and add up to the trip threshold of the breaker

You can get a spa panel with a 50A GFCI breaker about as cheap as buying just a GFCI breaker.
You mentioned a circuit for the required receptacle, this spa disconnect has extra spaces so you could run the 20A receptacle off of that. All you need is the #6 conductors (ungrounded & grounded) and a #10 EGC run to the spa disconnect.

Use Liquid Tight nonmetallic conduit from the disconnect to the tub. You also use the LTFNMC for the receptacle.

You do not need the emergency disconnect for a dwelling hot tub, that is for nondwelling.
Click to expand...
Its at least a 5' run from disconnect to tub, I was considering an underground feed in into the enclosure then a short whip into power terminal. Are you saying just LT underground or along the pavers? I feel its a tripping hazard the other way.
 
NoahsArc said:
Its at least a 5' run from disconnect to tub, I was considering an underground feed in into the enclosure then a short whip into power terminal. Are you saying just LT underground or along the pavers? I feel its a tripping hazard the other way.
Click to expand...
I have always laid it on top and strapped it down. However, I usually put it behind the tub between the tub and wall. If it's out in the open and not near a wall, I get it as close to the tub as possible and strap it. A few times I have been involved before the tub is set and I was able to stub it up and have the tub guys drill a hole for the stub up to enter the cabinet. Or I stub it up close to where I will enter through the side.
 
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