Cheap rv/camper outlet on amazon… neutral all tied together

Dsg319

Dsg319

Senior Member
Location
West Virginia
Occupation
Wv Master “lectrician”
picture won’t upload right now. But anyways it’s a cheap brand off Amazon and is a rv/camper 50/30/20amp receptacle outlet box.

It comes pre wired that all you have to do is tie the individual circuits into the small disconnect switches that look like breakers that are not.

That’s all fine and dandy but it has an isolated neutral bar (good thing) but that has all three of the different circuits neutrals going to it. Is that even allowed?

Amazon.com: VEVOR Temporary Power Outlet Panel, Weatherproof RV Electrical Breaker Box with 20/30/50 Amp Receptacle Installed, Prewired Circuit NEMA 14-50R/NEMA TT-30R / 20A GFCI for RV Camper Trailer Motorhome : Automotive

Buy VEVOR Temporary Power Outlet Panel, Weatherproof RV Electrical Breaker Box with 20/30/50 Amp Receptacle Installed, Prewired Circuit NEMA 14-50R/NEMA TT-30R / 20A GFCI for RV Camper Trailer Motorhome: Plugs, Inlets & Receptacles - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
www.amazon.com
 
Dsg319 said:
It comes pre wired that all you have to do is tie the individual circuits into the small disconnect switches that look like breakers that are not.

That’s all fine and dandy but it has an isolated neutral bar (good thing) but that has all three of the different circuits neutrals going to it. Is that even allowed?
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These are designed to act as sub panels. You are supposed to run a single feeder to them, say 90amps. So therefore, yes, the neutrals should all be tied together.

These also aren't UL or ETL listed, so hope you're not installing them. Siemens, Midwest, GE, all make similar panels, that are listed, but cost twice as much.
 
VirutalElectrician said:
These are designed to act as sub panels. You are supposed to run a single feeder to them, say 90amps. So therefore, yes, the neutrals should all be tied together.

These also aren't UL or ETL listed, so hope you're not installing them. Siemens, Midwest, GE, all make similar panels, that are listed, but cost twice as much.
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Yeah I’m not but was asked too and said not to use it.

I don’t see the main lugs for the hots if it’s suppose to fed with a single feeder though
 
VirutalElectrician said:
These are designed to act as sub panels. You are supposed to run a single feeder to them, say 90amps. So therefore, yes, the neutrals should all be tied together.

These also aren't UL or ETL listed, so hope you're not installing them. Siemens, Midwest, GE, all make similar panels, that are listed, but cost twice as much.
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The ones I’ve seen are Kinchoix, probably the same manufacturer as the Vevor, and you’re right, the assembly is not listed, but the components are. They have a terminal block for the feeder, but are not labeled as to the maximum ocp or wire size. Seem to be decently built, but will probably get dinged by an inspector.
 
Dsg319 said:
picture won’t upload right now. But anyways it’s a cheap brand off Amazon and is a rv/camper 50/30/20amp receptacle outlet box.

It comes pre wired that all you have to do is tie the individual circuits into the small disconnect switches that look like breakers that are not.

That’s all fine and dandy but it has an isolated neutral bar (good thing) but that has all three of the different circuits neutrals going to it. Is that even allowed?

Amazon.com: VEVOR Temporary Power Outlet Panel, Weatherproof RV Electrical Breaker Box with 20/30/50 Amp Receptacle Installed, Prewired Circuit NEMA 14-50R/NEMA TT-30R / 20A GFCI for RV Camper Trailer Motorhome : Automotive

Buy VEVOR Temporary Power Outlet Panel, Weatherproof RV Electrical Breaker Box with 20/30/50 Amp Receptacle Installed, Prewired Circuit NEMA 14-50R/NEMA TT-30R / 20A GFCI for RV Camper Trailer Motorhome: Plugs, Inlets & Receptacles - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
www.amazon.com
Click to expand...
So they are unit breakers with lugs on both ends instead of breakers supplied from a common bus structure?

The ones I have encountered had breakers plugged onto a bus just like Siemens, GE, Midwest would have.
 
They have a terminal block for the feeder as mentioned with the connections under the metal cover. I wouldn't install one of these.
 
jim dungar said:
Does the NEC allow branch circuit protection sizes of 63A and 32A or wiring that is not standard AWG sizes? Are these breaker really Listed or are they just Recognized?
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I think they are listed. I’d say the later.

I wouldn’t put it on my house so I wouldn’t put on others.
 
jim dungar said:
Does the NEC allow branch circuit protection sizes of 63A and 32A or wiring that is not standard AWG sizes? Are these breaker really Listed or are they just Recognized?
Click to expand...
One I seen has 50, 30, 20 amp breakers just like a Siemens, GE, Midwest assembly would have and they plug on to a bus in similar manner. Siemens, GE, or other typical 1" wide breakers likely would plug onto that bus. I don't recall seeing any listing or recognized markings on the breakers or the unit as a whole. IIRC the receptacles were also void of any such markings. Overall wasn't really any better or worse built than Siemens, GE, Midwest when it comes to major construction details. Couldn't tell you what went into breakers, receptacles, etc that you can't readily determine how good they really are.
 
If this doesn't have a NRTL listing the purchaser should return to Amazon and inform them that this is the case and not legal to install in the states. They will pull the product.
Amazon is to a large extent a bane for electricians where the HO is looking for their own fixtures or equipment, because the HO will find a similar product to the legitimate listed one at a fraction of the cost so you know what the HO will do.

kwired said:
So they are unit breakers with lugs on both ends instead of breakers supplied from a common bus structure?

The ones I have encountered had breakers plugged onto a bus just like Siemens, GE, Midwest would have.
Click to expand...
Yes, This is din rail breakers, they could be feed by individual wire or it can have a type of bus tab that is hidden based on pictures behind the side wall.
Din rail breakers as far as I've found are only UL1077 and not UL489 so only suitable for supplemental breakers not branch circuit. Do they have din rail breakers listed to UL489

Now even if all the components are "Listed", and these breakers being din rail Adding a feeder and splitting to 3 different size breakers would the design become a subpanel and now branch circuits? Or is it because the wiring doesn't leave the enclosure they are not branch circuits?
 
kwired said:
One I seen has 50, 30, 20 amp breakers just like a Siemens, GE, Midwest assembly would have and they plug on to a bus in similar manner. Siemens, GE, or other typical 1" wide breakers likely would plug onto that bus. I don't recall seeing any listing or recognized markings on the breakers or the unit as a whole. IIRC the receptacles were also void of any such markings. Overall wasn't really any better or worse built than Siemens, GE, Midwest when it comes to major construction details. Couldn't tell you what went into breakers, receptacles, etc that you can't readily determine how good they really are.
Click to expand...
I didn't look at OP's link before posting. The one I seen in person did not have those IEC style breakers. The receptacles and overall design of the enclosure were similar though.
 
Fred B said:
If this doesn't have a NRTL listing the purchaser should return to Amazon and inform them that this is the case and not legal to install in the states. They will pull the product.
Amazon is to a large extent a bane for electricians where the HO is looking for their own fixtures or equipment, because the HO will find a similar product to the legitimate listed one at a fraction of the cost so you know what the HO will do.


Yes, This is din rail breakers, they could be feed by individual wire or it can have a type of bus tab that is hidden based on pictures behind the side wall.
Din rail breakers as far as I've found are only UL1077 and not UL489 so only suitable for supplemental breakers not branch circuit. Do they have din rail breakers listed to UL489

Now even if all the components are "Listed", and these breakers being din rail Adding a feeder and splitting to 3 different size breakers would the design become a subpanel and now branch circuits? Or is it because the wiring doesn't leave the enclosure they are not branch circuits?
Click to expand...
I would think the entire assembly needs to be listed. If it is the individual components may not necessarily need to be listed might still need to be recognized which should allow replacement components to be recognized as well.
 
kwired said:
I would think the entire assembly needs to be listed. If it is the individual components may not necessarily need to be listed might still need to be recognized which should allow replacement components to be recognized as well.
Click to expand...
Amazon says it is, but it isn’t.
 

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Fred B said:
If this doesn't have a NRTL listing the purchaser should return to Amazon and inform them that this is the case and not legal to install in the states. They will pull the product.
Amazon is to a large extent a bane for electricians where the HO is looking for their own fixtures or equipment, because the HO will find a similar product to the legitimate listed one at a fraction of the cost so you know what the HO will do.
Click to expand...

LOL. Amazon would likely go out of business if they pulled everything that was required to be NRTL listed, but isn't. Tonnes and Tonnes of their lighting fixtures aren't listed. They already know they aren't. Most of that stuff is not SOLD by Amazon, but just shipped by Amazon, attempting to by-pass laws and regulations.

Strangely enough, this VEVOR device is not listed, but it is still sold by Amazon. That's unusual.
 
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