What Kind Of Cable Was This?

Seven-Delta-FortyOne

Goin’ Down In Flames........
Location
Humboldt
Occupation
EC and GC
Doing a whole house remodel right now, probably built in the ‘60’s.

Place is wired with metal flex cable with 2 cloth covered solid conductors inside. No bonding strip.

Grounding was accomplished with the metal cable armor. All metal boxes.
 
It sounds like the old style "BX" as pictured but I didn't think any 60s homes had that wiring method. Without the bond wire it poses a hazard
 
There has always been a tendency up here to be 10 years or so behind trends, (we're in the same area) so it wouldn't surprise me if the rest of the country had stopped using it before they stopped here.
 
Something like this? I've seen this quite a bit around here. I've heard it called BX, but not 100% on that.
View attachment 2578775

That’s exactly what it looks like

House could be a lot older than ‘60’s. Just a guess on my part.

Did the old BX not have a grounding conductor? For some reason I though BX always has a separate EGC.

This one has all the cable armor grounded and bonded so all receptacles test as grounded. But I don’t know if armored cable sheath was ever allowed to be used as the EGC. Guess it’s better than nothing.
 
It's old type AC. Rubber insulated, tin coated copper conductors. Not great as an EGC without the bonding strip that was added to AC in the 50's. We have thousands of old homes around here wired with that cable that is still active. The rubber dries out at the terminations especially at light fixtures where decades of heat have made it brittle. Skin it back a foot and the wire is as good as it was 80 years ago. AKA BX cable.
 
Yes the cloth disintegrates, the metal housing can be ungrounded or even energized without you knowing. It's dangerous. I've never seen BX with an internal ground wire.
 
If the sheath is bonded back to panel, as most is that I have found, the OCPD should trip if the sheath is energized.
Without the little bonding wire that comes in modern AC that old BX sheath can be high enough resistance that it heats up instead of pulling enough current to trip a breaker.
 
There is the story of BX and how it got its name here someplace. I think there was an original AX that was replaced by a later B version- BX. It was the replacement for K&T. It has conductors wrapped with paper and covered with a spiral wound steel armor. The armor serves as the EGC. There were various versions of this design, such as the waterproof one that had the conductors covered in lead under the armor.

Conductors were tinned copper. The conductor insulation was always rubber and covered with fabric. (Type R) There was a time in the late 50's I recall, when they screwed around with the rubber compound causing the rubber to became brittle over time throughout the cable, but other than for that short time it was as Infinity says, "except where it was heat damaged the rest of the cable was as good as new". Shortly after, in the 60's, the type R was replaced with TW then THHN.

I don't remember when BX became AC, probably when TW was used for the conductors. Still, some people call any armored cable BX.

As far as the armor being dangerous because it's used as the EGC, if the steel armor corroded causing it to lose contact with adjacent spirals making the resistance of the EGC increase and there was a fault to ground, (and it would have to be because of a damaged cable because there were no grounding receptacles at the time) it's possible that the breaker or fuse wouldn't trip. There were even a few reports of the armor glowing red. But I submit that the cable would have to be of considerable length and damaged for that to happen. To help prevent that, starting in the mid 50's, about the time when grounded receptacles became required, #12 BX and up started having the aluminum strip under the armor that provided continuity from spiral to spiral. Then all #14 BX. Unfortunately, BX and AC and MCAP still all use the armor for the EGC, all rely on the box connectors for ECG connections and continuity. Loose or damaged connectors, even not removing the paint sometimes when installing connectors can render the EGC useless.

The solution is MC cable with its separate insulated green EGC but that has some disfavor because, God forbid, you have to deal with the additional EGC conductor and metallic boxes. Of course, there is garbage NM that at least has a separate although bare EGC. But then you deal with all the other issues such as it being easily damaged and the bare EGC having to connect to the ground screws of all devices and possibly contacting the neutral or hot screws.

As far as I'm concerned, I would feel safer with a BX or AC wiring system in good shape than a lot of the NM I've seen.

-Hal
 
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I've never encountered the version that only had cloth on the wires. What I've seen started with tinned copper wire, then rubber insulation, then cloth over that, then paper, then the steel armor. The rubber gets brittle and just flakes away when you mess with it in the tiny octagon boxes behind the light fixtures.
 
There is the story of BX and how it got its name here someplace. I think there was an original AX that was replaced by a later B version- BX. It was the replacement for K&T. It has conductors wrapped with paper and covered with a spiral wound steel armor. The armor serves as the EGC. There were various versions of this design, such as the waterproof one that had the conductors covered in lead under the armor.

Conductors were tinned copper. The conductor insulation was always rubber and covered with fabric. (Type R) There was a time in the late 50's I recall, when they screwed around with the rubber compound causing the rubber to became brittle over time throughout the cable, but other than for that short time it was as Infinity says, "except where it was heat damaged the rest of the cable was as good as new". Shortly after, in the 60's, the type R was replaced with TW then THHN.

I don't remember when BX became AC, probably when TW was used for the conductors. Still, some people call any armored cable BX.

As far as the armor being dangerous because it's used as the EGC, if the steel armor corroded causing it to lose contact with adjacent spirals making the resistance of the EGC increase and there was a fault to ground, (and it would have to be because of a damaged cable because there were no grounding receptacles at the time) it's possible that the breaker or fuse wouldn't trip. There were even a few reports of the armor glowing red. But I submit that the cable would have to be of considerable length and damaged for that to happen. To help prevent that, starting in the mid 50's, about the time when grounded receptacles became required, #12 BX and up started having the aluminum strip under the armor that provided continuity from spiral to spiral. Then all #14 BX. Unfortunately, BX and AC and MCAP still all use the armor for the EGC, all rely on the box connectors for ECG connections and continuity. Loose or damaged connectors, even not removing the paint sometimes when installing connectors can render the EGC useless.

The solution is MC cable with its separate insulated green EGC but that has some disfavor because, God forbid, you have to deal with the additional EGC conductor and metallic boxes. Of course, there is garbage NM that at least has a separate although bare EGC. But then you deal with all the other issues such as it being easily damaged and the bare EGC having to connect to the ground screws of all devices and possibly contacting the neutral or hot screws.

As far as I'm concerned, I would feel safer with a BX or AC wiring system in good shape than a lot of the NM I've seen.

-Hal



Apparently the “BX” came from a manufacturer in the Bronx, and that was a shortened trade name, much like “Romex” is from the Rome Wire and Steel Company, or some such thing.

I don’t know what the issue with NM cable is. There are literally millions upon millions of miles of it in millions of homes, and there isn’t an out of proportion issue with it, any more than any other installation.

Unless you have some data otherwise. I’m not familiar with it.
 
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