What constitutes a service change?

E

Eddie702

Licensed Electrician
Location
Western Massachusetts
Occupation
Electrician
2 questions

My nephew has a summer camp with an old 100 amp service. The only load to speak of is a standard electric range and an electric water heater. The 100-amp Murray panel is fine, and I would like to keep it.

The issue is that the SE cable is starting to deteriorate (overhead service) and the meter socket is hanging loose as the siding guys cut the screws when they resided it and it should have ground rods (it does have a copper water line more than 10' to the well). The other issue is the drip loop is too low, so it needs a mast.

So I would like to keep the panel , put up a mast and ground rods and a new meter socket.

Would I have to go with a meter main/ emergency disconnect? So what constitutes a service change that would require an emergency disconnect?


2d question. About 25 years the 100 amp main breaker went bad (same job). I went to the supply house and bought a two pole Murray 100amp breaker and installed it.

I didn't realize until I put the breaker in that the switch position was reversed. The breaker mounts vertically. The old breaker up was on and down was off as it should be. The replacement is down on and up is off.
 
Eddie702 said:
2 questions

My nephew has a summer camp with an old 100 amp service. The only load to speak of is a standard electric range and an electric water heater. The 100-amp Murray panel is fine, and I would like to keep it.

The issue is that the SE cable is starting to deteriorate (overhead service) and the meter socket is hanging loose as the siding guys cut the screws when they resided it and it should have ground rods (it does have a copper water line more than 10' to the well). The other issue is the drip loop is too low, so it needs a mast.

So I would like to keep the panel , put up a mast and ground rods and a new meter socket.

Would I have to go with a meter main/ emergency disconnect? So what constitutes a service change that would require an emergency disconnect?


2d question. About 25 years the 100 amp main breaker went bad (same job). I went to the supply house and bought a two pole Murray 100amp breaker and installed it.

I didn't realize until I put the breaker in that the switch position was reversed. The breaker mounts vertically. The old breaker up was on and down was off as it should be. The replacement is down on and up is off.
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If you didn't need to do the mast would anybody at poco notice if you just changed it without telling?:unsure:
 
Eddie702 said:
Would I have to go with a meter main/ emergency disconnect? So what constitutes a service change that would require an emergency disconnect?
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The 2023 code addresses this issue.
(C) Replacement.
Where service equipment is replaced, all of the requirements of this section shall apply.

Exception:
Where only meter sockets, service entrance conductors, or related raceways and fittings are replaced, the requirements of this section shall not apply.
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It appears that the exception would apply in your case. The 2020 code did not cover this.
 
Eddie702 said:
I didn't realize until I put the breaker in that the switch position was reversed. The breaker mounts vertically. The old breaker up was on and down was off as it should be. The replacement is down on and up is off.
Click to expand...
If this is being inspected you would likely need to correct issues that were not compliant at time of original install. Most companies are starting to use "Smart Meter" and any removal would trigger a notification to the POCO, so would think it will need inspection as any attempt to remove "undercover" or without POCO involvement would not likely work to your advantage, and not advisable as (IF they later observe an alteration) they could terminate service until an inspection is completed, and that may red flag even more things.
 
Fred B said:
If this is being inspected you would likely need to correct issues that were not compliant at time of original install. Most companies are starting to use "Smart Meter" and any removal would trigger a notification to the POCO, so would think it will need inspection as any attempt to remove "undercover" or without POCO involvement would not likely work to your advantage, and not advisable as (IF they later observe an alteration) they could terminate service until an inspection is completed, and that may red flag even more things.
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Can those meters know if you pulled it real quick? Or if it lost power. If you gone when they come out and shut up beside the tag gone how would they know—— ignorance is bliss
 
I would still go with a meter/main combo. If the building has permanent provisions for living, sleeping, cooking, and sanitation it fits the definition of a dwelling unit. Just do it the right way. Pull a permit, get an inspection, all is good. You can still leave the inside panel "as is" and the 100A breaker in that panel is now just a switch. Don't forget about your surge protection and inter-system bonding device when you ground the new service. Don't forget to separate grounds and neutrals in your existing panel and remove any bonding jumpers or screws.
 
Here we'd be allowed to do as you describe replace the meterbase, mast and grounding electrode system and not be considered a service change, it would only be a service change if the loadcenter was also replaced.
 
AC\DC said:
Can those meters know if you pulled it real quick? Or if it lost power. If you gone when they come out and shut up beside the tag gone how would they know—— ignorance is bliss
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They will know in less than five minutes according to the reports on them. They are directly fed to the POCO office and they don't have to send out meter readers anymore. Meter readers were supposed to be a line of defense for rotted meter cans and bared SE cable.
 
Fred B said:
They will know in less than five minutes according to the reports on them. They are directly fed to the POCO office and they don't have to send out meter readers anymore. Meter readers were supposed to be a line of defense for rotted meter cans and bared SE cable.
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Was in a house recently and poco turned it off remotely. Owner called paid bill they turned it back on. No rubber boots needed.....
 
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