Pool Light GFCI

[Desert Sparky]

I'm working on the design for a small backyard addition, which will include a pool with a single pool light fixture. I'd like to extend power from an existing GFCI-type receptacle to feed this pool light, but want to confirm I'm meeting the GFCI requirements in 680. In addition, the pool light will also be switched.

Can the existing GFCI-outlet provide code required GFCI-protection for the pool light per 680.23(3) & 680.23(F)? Or would I need to provide an additional blank face GFCI in between the light switch and the light fixture, down stream of the existing receptacle? My concern is adding the second blank face GFCI could cause nuisance tripping at the existing GFCI receptacle.

Thoughts?

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Are you really planning to use a line voltage light in a pool??? The only type of pool light I would even think about would be one that operates below the low voltage contact limit and is supplied by a listed pool light power supply.

There is no reason you can't use the existing circuit, and adding a second GFCI will not cause nuisance tripping at the GFCI receptacle. The only possible issue is that if a ground fault occurs on the load side of the downstream GFCI (assuming the downstream GFCI is fed by the load terminals of the GFCI receptacle) is that either or both of the GFCIs may trip.

 

[Desert Sparky]

Are you really planning to use a line voltage light in a pool??? The only type of pool light I would even think about would be one that operates below the low voltage contact limit and is supplied by a listed pool light power supply.

There is no reason you can't use the existing circuit, and adding a second GFCI will not cause nuisance tripping at the GFCI receptacle. The only possible issue is that if a ground fault occurs on the load side of the downstream GFCI (assuming the downstream GFCI is fed by the load terminals of the GFCI receptacle) is that either or both of the GFCIs may trip.

Thanks for the input. The 120V light is being specified by the pool guy - wouldn’t be my first choice either.

You raise a good point: perhaps the better installation is to feed off of the line side of the existing outlet (not the load side) and just provide the blank face GFCI for protection of the light fixture separately down stream. Do you concur?

 

[tortuga]

If I had a built in backyard pool or spa I'd light it with fiber-optic. Some pool guys say fiber optic is 'outdated' but in the telcom/communications world its the next best thing.
All I know is no matter what it cant shock me and it looks cool.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Thanks for the input. The 120V light is being specified by the pool guy - wouldn’t be my first choice either.

If I was either the contractor or the engineer, I would simply refuse to provide any connections for a line voltage light in a pool. If that means I walk away from the job, so be it.

 

[hbiss]

Who was it that said they wouldn't swim in a pool that had any kind of light?

Oh, was it Mike Holt?

-Hal

 

[Little Bill]

The 120V light is being specified by the pool guy

Tell the pool guy to rethink and specify a low voltage pool light. Of the many pools I have done the electrical for, they all have been low voltage. I did one line voltage but it was a remodel and the wiring was already in place. All I did was the bonding for the niche and the EGC from the JB to the light niche.

 

[ChesterDawg]

Low voltage pool lights are much safer and you can fun stuff like changing colors.

 

[ramsy]

adding a second GFCI will not cause nuisance tripping at the GFCI receptacle

Saw pond pump trip a GFCI, until redundant protection was removed.

First opening at kitchen counter also powered exterior-wall GFCI.

Don’t know why it happened, but moving exterior GFCI branch to line-side of kitchen AF/GF solved the problem.

 

[augie47]

Does 680.23 & 24 not require the equipment grounding conductor to extend to the supply panel without splice (with exceptions).
Would this not prohibit connectimg to an existing receptacle GFCI circuit ?

 

[suemarkp]

Dont have the code book handy but I thought the language for pool lights seemed to imply that the pool light branch circuit required gfci protection, not just the light. So that used to be one of the few requirements for a gfci breaker instead of receptacle type. But this could have changed.

 

[Little Bill]

Does 680.23 & 24 not require the equipment grounding conductor to extend to the supply panel without splice (with exceptions).
Would this not prohibit connectimg to an existing receptacle GFCI circuit ?

For line voltage, yes
For low voltage, no

 

[Desert Sparky]

For line voltage, yes
For low voltage, no

I’m assuming that you’re referring to 680.23(A)(3), correct? Is your interpretation of this section that pool lights that operate at 120V require the entire length of branch circuit be GFCI protected? In other words, this section requires the ground fault protection at the panel board that feeds the light?

 

[Little Bill]

I’m assuming that you’re referring to 680.23(A)(3), correct? Is your interpretation of this section that pool lights that operate at 120V require the entire length of branch circuit be GFCI protected? In other words, this section requires the ground fault protection at the panel board that feeds the light?

I was speaking of 680.23(F2) for EGC being unbroken and ran with circuit conductors. But yes, to the GFCI requirement.

 

[tortuga]

Low voltage pool lights are much safer and you can fun stuff like changing colors.

Yeah I am a sucker for that color changing stuff I'd light up the garden with it, however considering there is a case history of ESD at the low voltages those things operate at I'd still want fiberoptic in the pool.

 

[ramsy]

still want fiberoptic in the pool.

Idiot proof is preferred for DIY remodels.

Do pool suppliers sell fiber optic light kits?

 

[Mystic Pools]

Tell the pool guy to rethink and specify a low voltage pool light. Of the many pools I have done the electrical for, they all have been low voltage. I did one line voltage but it was a remodel and the wiring was already in place. All I did was the bonding for the niche and the EGC from the JB to the light niche.

Low voltage way to go

 

[Mystic Pools]

I did fiber optic lighting starting aroung1998 on remodels. I used FiberWorks which was a Pentair company. Not very bright and the light generator had a halogen bulb. The fibers (strands) had to be re-cut every few years at the light generator as the ends would gloss over.
I tried the perimeter FO on a new build around 2000. Last time I used FO.

Fiberstars was another.

PAL lighting is about the only FO for pools I know of.
I have been using Jandy nicheless 12V LED's for about 20 years. Jandy bought a company in Florida that pioneered that type of light. J and J electronics I think was the company and the light model was the Savi Light.

 

[tjdilly]

For line voltage, yes
For low voltage, no

I was speaking of 680.23(F2) for EGC being unbroken and ran with circuit conductors. But yes, to the GFCI requirement.

Does 680.23 & 24 not require the equipment grounding conductor to extend to the supply panel without splice (with exceptions).
Would this not prohibit connectimg to an existing receptacle GFCI circuit ?

680.23(F)(2)(b) specifically allows the EGC to be terminated at a GFCI between the source of power and the light, so long as no non-gfci protected conductors are within the conduit from the receptacle to the light. The code does not seem to distinguish between a GFCI receptacle and a blank face GFCI, so to answer the original question it is my opinion that so long as it's done like the graphic below, this would be an acceptable installation.

GFCIs and Swimming Pools – A Natural Fit

iaeimagazine.org

 

[tortuga]

I did fiber optic lighting starting aroung1998 on remodels. I used FiberWorks which was a Pentair company. Not very bright

Yeah Fiberworks thats a great system, I personally dont like in-wall pool lights much, 12V or 120V they shine in your eyes when swimming laps, and they just don't provide the type of ambient light I like. I thought the fiber was the perfect softer level of light, but to each his or her own.