Joethemechanic
Senior Member
- Location
- Hazleton Pa
- Occupation
- Electro-Mechanical Technician. Industrial machinery
Yeah
That 141% wire could also be bonded to ground and then you could use 2 pole discos and motor starters
Neutral conductor of a 5-wire, 2-phase, system is it CC?
- Thread starter WD40
- Start date
That 141% wire could also be bonded to ground and then you could use 2 pole discos and motor starters
We had a brilliant retired Navy engineer that reused 2,300 volt to 240 volts transformers to step up 240 volts to 2,300 volts two.phase three wire for a new building. Building needed two.phase 240 volts for 8 used two phase ammonia compressors.
jaggedben
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern California
- Occupation
- Solar and Energy Storage Installer
I don't think that's right. See posts #6 and #11.
I do not remember North American Engines but we were located at Front & Venago Streets. Down the street from the SKF bearing plant. I wired in a small store in Mayfair during a natural gas storage so they went with a three phase roof top AC unit with electric heat.Installed a 100 amp single phase & a three phase 240 volt 100 amp service. Area was still feed by two phase and they ( PECO ) only bought in four energised wires and a grounded conductor.to basement end box. One wire of course was the same aluminum gauge as the others feed one leg if the three phase & one side of the single phase. Have to.love it when utility company only use wire that we would rate for maybe 70 amps to feed 200 amps. The electric heater drew around 70 amps and the store had a lot of 8' old fluorescent four tube T12 luminars so with the heat on that 70 amp wire could be drawing over 100 amps .
winnie
Senior Member
- Location
- Springfield, MA, USA
- Occupation
- Electric motor research
I wasn't clear in my statement. I said 'The total number of CCCs for derating is 1 less than the total number of wires.' at the end of a paragraph where I identified a _specific_ situation (2 phase, 5 wire with neutral). What I should have said was 'In this specific situation the total 'wires worth of heating' is at most 1 less than the total number of wires.'
-Jonathan
Joethemechanic
Senior Member
- Location
- Hazleton Pa
- Occupation
- Electro-Mechanical Technician. Industrial machinery
North American was right by B & Allegheny.
He owned the building to the left in the photo also. And a big auto parts warehouse on Fairmont, not to mention an industrial park he built in Bensalem. Always in work clothes
Yeah I know all the time I see really small service drops connected to big service entrance conductors especially in Philly. They are usually short though. Not enough loss to worry about, limits AFC, cheaper, and they make own rules
There were so many manufacturer's in Philly back in the day. When I complained to my dad how many smoke stacks I could see at night while climbing high trees at night he said that means the business was was working at least two shifts a day that provided good wages to put a roof over families heads, feed them and provide money for a car. Unfortunately when big companies close up they affect smaller businesses. When the Philadelphia Naval Yard closed up the industrial hardware supply that we used had to lay off the two salesman that the yard was their only account and a least one person in the warehouse.
Joethemechanic
Senior Member
- Location
- Hazleton Pa
- Occupation
- Electro-Mechanical Technician. Industrial machinery
Yeah, remember Budd Company, Dodge Steel Foundry, Midvale Steel.
Do you remember McHugh Brothers Crane Rental? I did some crazy stuff with them. Durkin Contractors over on Grant is closed up. JD Morrisey, and Anderson aren't what they once were either
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Can remember the two busy Budd plants. The one on Red Lion Road made smsll.planes during WW2. Dodge steel had to be a bad place to work. They had adds in the Sunday paper for electricians at least six tines a year. A school Iowa's built on that site.Can remember the Frankford Arsenal & the Philippines Navy Yard because every summer we would go there in annual open house week and get to walk the flight deck if a WW2 air craft carrier and climb on an old tank. Phillco Ford and the two SKF buildings probably had over 2,500 workers at one time. Do remember that crane company, Dunkin & JD Morrisey. Actually helped a friend install a machine in a company called Midvale Hepestall. ( they made cannon balls for the civil war ). Stetson hats in Kensington bonds had several thousand workers. Morrisey sold off corner portion for a new Wawa a few years ago. If you drive down Linden Avenue yoh can see where they have 70 year old graders and equipment parked there last 50 years.
Joethemechanic
Senior Member
- Location
- Hazleton Pa
- Occupation
- Electro-Mechanical Technician. Industrial machinery
Yeah, that was the place. Bob Forepaugh tore that down for Allegheny Iron. Big Damn job. Bought himself 11 acres on the Delaware in Bensalem with a 14 room 250 year old brick home. He gutted it and redid it all, plus a giant in ground pool, boat ramp, dock,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, all on the profit from that job.
Poor guy didn't live to be 70 though. Crane he was operating made contact with a 7.2kv primary at a JDM concrete batch plant he was tearing down in Telford. Guys working with him were burning steel, big stuff, like liquid OX with an auxiliary vaporizer kinda big cutting. So they become aware that the crane is on fire, and Bob was laying on the ground and unresponsive. So they get down to help Bob and somebody bumps into the outrigger box. They burned for half an hour before PP&L got that circuit deenergized. It was all really bad, and 20 years later I can still see the fallout in the families. I think that was 2003 or maybe 04.
zbang
Senior Member
- Location
- Roughly 5346 miles from Earls Court
Just yesterday I did my re-cert class for MEWP and aerial lifts (there's four hours I won't get back), the instructor really emphasized situational awareness and understanding swing space (and clearance distances from MV/HV lines).
(Relevant to clearances- I manage a small Masonic building and we'd like to paint it but... 10' sidewalks and 12KV lines on both streets next to the building, the PoCo engineer I talked to about the voltage was stumped about how to do it legally without taking those lines out of service, which would Not Be Cheap.)
(Relevant to clearances- I manage a small Masonic building and we'd like to paint it but... 10' sidewalks and 12KV lines on both streets next to the building, the PoCo engineer I talked to about the voltage was stumped about how to do it legally without taking those lines out of service, which would Not Be Cheap.)
winnie
Senior Member
- Location
- Springfield, MA, USA
- Occupation
- Electric motor research
I wonder:
New autonomous drone is a smarter way to apply paint | AkzoNobel
New autonomous drone is a smarter way to apply paint | AkzoNobel
www.akzonobel.com
Probably not ready for prime time. But that report was from 6 years ago, so maybe the way to deal with personnel safety and those power lines is to keep people away from them and use a machine that can get the painting job done.
Joethemechanic
Senior Member
- Location
- Hazleton Pa
- Occupation
- Electro-Mechanical Technician. Industrial machinery
The building here next to city hall was a two phase building. It might still be for all I know. City Hall was designed so as never to cast a shadow upon it. Something to do with a birds of prey feeder up on that tall spire I think
I got really curious and did some East coast research on Philly, emailed / called PECO, googled, and checked some PA PUC filings for upgrades they are doing while I am distracted waiting for another POCO here to get back to me LOL.
My hypothesis is they do infact have a 4kV 2-phase primary network in some legacy areas.
They would order one 13kV -> 4kv scott transformer made by Penn Transformer at each of several substations including 'Center City' 'OverBrook' and 'Upper Darby'.
The 4kv would be '3-wire two phase', and 'regular distribution transformers are used to make single phase 120/240 or 240/120 5-wire two phase'. The 4kv might also be used for 1phase light rail circuits for something called 'SEPTA' .
Funny thing about 'SEPTA' is get this they also run a 25hz network for them.
According to PUC filings the 4kv is being retired from 'OverBrook' and 'Upper Darby' and I would guess those existing two-phase customers will get scott-T's off the 13kv network.
I am no distribution engineer, not sure that even makes any sense or how it even works, but so far it seems logical.
Perhaps a real PECO person is on here and can clarify.
My hypothesis is they do infact have a 4kV 2-phase primary network in some legacy areas.
They would order one 13kV -> 4kv scott transformer made by Penn Transformer at each of several substations including 'Center City' 'OverBrook' and 'Upper Darby'.
The 4kv would be '3-wire two phase', and 'regular distribution transformers are used to make single phase 120/240 or 240/120 5-wire two phase'. The 4kv might also be used for 1phase light rail circuits for something called 'SEPTA' .
Funny thing about 'SEPTA' is get this they also run a 25hz network for them.
According to PUC filings the 4kv is being retired from 'OverBrook' and 'Upper Darby' and I would guess those existing two-phase customers will get scott-T's off the 13kv network.
I am no distribution engineer, not sure that even makes any sense or how it even works, but so far it seems logical.
Perhaps a real PECO person is on here and can clarify.
zbang
Senior Member
- Location
- Roughly 5346 miles from Earls Court
This is some amazing (and not uncommon) topic drift-
South Eastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority. The light rail/trolleys/trolley-buses/subway are the usual <1kv DC, the "regional" heavy rail are old Reading RR lines at 12kv 25Hz, same as Amtrak's (ex Penn RR) northeast corridor and Harrisburg lines although the systems are not interconnected. Got to get the power from somewhere... SEPTA has a converter station and switchyard at Wayne Junction to feed the entire system; PECO delivers 230kv and SEPTA takes it from there on their own network, a great thing about owning a railroad is being able to run your power along the R-O-W.
Since AFAIK PECO hasn't made 2-phase in quite a while, all of their customers would be served by a Scott-T somewhere, could be in a substation or could be under the sidewalk.
Joethemechanic
Senior Member
- Location
- Hazleton Pa
- Occupation
- Electro-Mechanical Technician. Industrial machinery
Pennsylvania State Hospital at Byberry Farms had a 2 phase power plant in the boiler house that was capable of powering the whole place. From what I understand it was staffed by patients
It was over 60 buildings on over 1000 acres and at it's peak housed about 7000 patients
It was coal fired and had it's own rail siding for coal deliveries
All gone now. Geppert Brothers tore it all down about 20 years ago. When I was a teen we used it for "urban exploration" but back then it was called "having a keg party"
It was over 60 buildings on over 1000 acres and at it's peak housed about 7000 patients
- A- Laundry (S-8)
- B- Garages
- C- Warehouse
- D- Power Plant
- E- Nurses' Quarters (S-10, now Self Help)
- F- Electrical Substation
- G- C-1
- H- C-2
- I- C-3
- J- C-4
- K- C-5
- L- C-6
- M- Old Administration
- N- Old Cafeteria/Maintenence
- O- C-14 Infirmary
- P- Remains of old Laundry (C-13)
- Q- C-12
- R- Furey Ellis Hall
- S- C-11
- T- C-10
- U- C-9
- V- C-8
- W- C-7
- X- N-10 (TB Hospital)
- Y- N-8 (Max Security Female)
- Z- N-9 (Max Security Male)
- 1- W-6
- 2- W-7
- 3- W-3 (Active Therapy Building)
- 4- W-5 (Cafeteria/Dietary)
It was coal fired and had it's own rail siding for coal deliveries
All gone now. Geppert Brothers tore it all down about 20 years ago. When I was a teen we used it for "urban exploration" but back then it was called "having a keg party"
Joethemechanic
Senior Member
- Location
- Hazleton Pa
- Occupation
- Electro-Mechanical Technician. Industrial machinery
I believe there are still rotary converters at The Port Richmond Generating Station to supply The Northeast Corridor with 25Hz
I drive thru the road on North side. They kept a few of the old office buildings. My neighbor was a head nurse on second shift for years while I was a kid.While working second shift at the old Whitman's Chocolate plant not far from there the security guard called them to say one of their patients was in the lobby. Told him nobody was missing & a little while later a second patient sat in the lobby because but was a cold night and they were in thin PJ's. Guard called back and told then he now has two of their nuts in the lobby. Within five minutes they came by to take them back. We felt sorry for them and gave them some fresh made candy to eat.