Email from customer

Merry Christmas
See an attorney
Ask attorney about the following:
Call insurance company
See if the added circuit was permitted
Call, or see, the customer
Ask customer why they didn't call you for the added circuit & for sure ask why they didn't call you for the repair.
 
(I am not a lawyer...)
Was that piece of plastic there and held in by tape when you installed it? (What does a new panel look like in that area?)

"By law" you only need to do what's in the contract or is "normal and customary" in your area. The fact that someone else was in the panel, arguably should have noticed a problem before it happened, wasn't working to normal safe practices (a live bus), and you weren't given an opportunity to either inspect the supposed problem nor mitigate it, all suggests* that you can tell the client to politely pound sand.

*absent a warranty or other agreement

The client may have a claim against Eaton for a manufacturing defect in the panel, it looks like they have a 10-year warranty but I doubt that covers installation of a new one.
 
For the amount they are asking I might just pay it before making an insurance claim, without admitting fault. But that's up to you.

You are not obligated by any law relating to the CSLB to pay this if you haven't received some kind of complaint or report from the CSLB. But such a complaint and report could be coming if the client got the CSLB involved. You'd probably be best off there if you just paid. Otherwise the CSLB can accuse you of departing from trade standards or not fulfilling a warranty. I unfortunately speak from knowledge of such a situation.

I agree with the advice to talk to an attorney.

Do the pictures indicate manufacturer mistake, something left out of this panelboard assembly? I can't really tell. The duct tape is really weird, hope you have evidence that your guys didn't do that.

Perhaps best course is to seek restitution from Eaton.
 
Yes, just pay - attorney’s gonna be a lot more.

Or tell the customer to suck it and see if they sue you the most they gonna sue you for is the damage

Attorneys are just gonna bend you over that’s all they do
 
No way I would pay. Sets a bad precedent for any future litigation from them or others. The whole thing revolves around causation. That panel functioned for nearly a year, passed inspection and only failed when a different electrician was working on it energized. (The duct tape strikes me that he was up to something squirley and trying to protect that edge for conductivity). All this introduces reasonable doubt (about causation), which is fatal to a claim like this.
Especially when you were not notified nor given a chance to inspect or repair. The panel being replaced immediately, any destruction of evidence, makes it impossible to prove whether this was an original installation issue ‘or’ a manufacturing defect. Again, from a liability standpoint, that's a very weak claim against you.
And paying to make it go away when no fault has been established yet seems at the very least premature. I definitely would involve the manufacturer as others have said here. Seeing hundreds of these photos weekly they most likely will have insight beyond yours. And as far as I'm concerned that email is evidence against the last electrician.

*edit: - besides they're just fishing, otherwise you would've gotten a letter from their attorney.
 
Here is my cent and a half advice.

Why pay, if it wasn't your fault?

Probably not required, but they should have called you first at the first sign of trouble, unless you completed the panel upgrade and finished on an unpleasant terms. When I do an engine overhaul and hear a funny noise, I take it back to the original mechanic that worked on it, not to Paul.

Don't pay tem yet and don't take ANY blame for it. Leave the insurance and the attorney out for now. Contact the panel manufacturer first. It may be a faulty panel.

Get the damaged panel from the customer, not the pictures.
 
andy@advancelectric.com said:
Sorry I got invoices with some info I thought was removed.
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Where are the details on the invoice ? Anybody can make up an invoice in less than minute and thirty three seconds.

Have you had the chance to speak with Paul, to see if he is legit?

You need to do the investigative work so it doesn't fall on you.

Don't worry about CSLB, they won't ding your license without any investigation.
 
Ha! I bet that invoice was from "Paul" to the customer, he might not even be the cause of the problem in the first place. It was probably the homeowners best friends cousins neighbor who said, "sure I can add your extra circuit". Then the HO gets the problem fixed by Paul and sends you the bill because they hope you might just pay. DON'T PAY!!!
 
A lot of people here are saying to stand on principle and I completely understand that.

But...

I would also want to share my opinion on one thing.

Sometimes it is cheaper to pay it and move on. Your time is $. The effects worrying about it is also a factor.

I have had people point fingers for HOURS with emails back and forth when the remedy was cheaper than finding fault. If you would rather not think about it and you are too busy to go back and forth with them, then maybe just have a lawyer draft something and have them sign it for the check.

Or level with the other electrician and try to get it paid for by the both of you to avoid problems.

Ultimately, you have a decision to make and I don't think going either way is wrong. Good Luck.
 
I would probably politely state that without definitive evidence I could not accept fault or financial responsibility for an incident that may have been caused by someone else. And I would stick to that unless or until they filed suit or got the CSLB involved, at which point I'd write a statement explaining that I'd be willing to pay the money they're asking (not more) only and entirely to resolve the dispute without admitting fault, while still making clear that I think there's someone else they should be going after.

If they were asking for a lot more money I'd call my insurance company right away so that their lawyers would take it on, but at the amount they're asking I'm guessing that if you do that you may end up paying more in higher premiums than what they're asking. And fighting an actual suit would also cost way more.
 
Elect117 said:
A lot of people here are saying to stand on principle and I completely understand that.

But...

I would also want to share my opinion on one thing.

Sometimes it is cheaper to pay it and move on. Your time is $. The effects worrying about it is also a factor.

I have had people point fingers for HOURS with emails back and forth when the remedy was cheaper than finding fault. If you would rather not think about it and you are too busy to go back and forth with them, then maybe just have a lawyer draft something and have them sign it for the check.

Or level with the other electrician and try to get it paid for by the both of you to avoid problems.

Ultimately, you have a decision to make and I don't think going either way is wrong. Good Luck.
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You sell a car to Customer X. A year later Customer X calls you up and says, "I took that car you sold me down to Paul the Mechanic because I wanted him to install a new distributor cap and while he was installing the new distributor cap the whole engine caught fire so Paul put a new engine in and now you owe me $4000".

And you say,
A) "Yea, that makes sense. Let me write you a check, or better yet let me Venmo you".
B) "Let me pay a lawyer to decide if I need to pay you for the engine fire Paul caused".
C) "Tell Paul I'll cover half of his bill. That seems the most fair way to handle it".

All of those choices seem wrong.
 
Paul did the work and wants YOU to pay him? Nope. You got no opportunity to make it right, inspect, nothing. Now there is no clear evidence of fact. That would never settle. Actually the one that is out, assuming you didn't have warranty, is the homeowner, or their insurance.
 
ActionDave said:
You sell a car to Customer X. A year later Customer X calls you up and says, "I took that car you sold me down to Paul the Mechanic because I wanted him to install a new distributor cap and while he was installing the new distributor cap the whole engine caught fire so Paul put a new engine in and now you owe me $4000".

And you say,
A) "Yea, that makes sense. Let me write you a check, or better yet let me Venmo you".
B) "Let me pay a lawyer to decide if I need to pay you for the engine fire Paul caused".
C) "Tell Paul I'll cover half of his bill. That seems the most fair way to handle it".

All of those choices seem wrong.
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You are looking at the principle of the matter. I was just offering up that the cost of investigating it to defend himself and any anguish from worrying about it might "cost" more.

And dealerships would probably just pay it. Right and wrong don't always matter as much as the bottom line. Lemon lawsuits and being able to void any dealership warranties they offered at purchase would value at more than $4k. It would be easier to pay it and cut ties with the customer. They also have some other mark ups in the financing. My buddy does lemon lawsuits. They get dealers and manufacturers on the weirdest issues. The car is depreciated at the end of the first year and even when the dealer just takes the buy back. They lost. Their goal is to keep the financing and not to eat both the projected interest and absorb the depreciation. You also have to take into account the customer's own insurance coverage. But this could end up as a WHOLE other tangent lol.

For example,

My buddy drives in the carpool lane when he is alone in his car. He gets 1 to 2 carpool lane violations a year, at about $450 a ticket. It saves him, on average, 1.5 hours in the car a day.

Is he

A) wasting his money
B) Paying a membership fee of $2.47 per day for access to the carpool lane to save 1.5 hours in the car
C) a bad person

The answer doesn't really matter. If the cost is worth it to him then he can pay it. At least until they throw him in jail lol.
 
Even if you wanted to just settle, somebody that knows what they are doing needs to write up a settlement agreement. I would think it would need to be something akin to a "global settlement" so you are done with them forever. Otherwise there is always the risk of them trying to come back for more. Don't assume that something you write up yourself is going to protect you in the future.

A Global Settlement Agreement is a comprehensive legal deal resolving numerous similar claims (like from a defective product or mass harm) or all disputes between parties in one master agreement, instead of handling each case individually. Used in class actions, mass torts, and complex litigation, it streamlines the process for large groups of plaintiffs, offering efficiency, quicker resolution for compensation, and finality for defendants, even while often denying fault.
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You don't want them coming back in a couple months claiming that the incident did more damage than was apparent, and now you owe them for a refrigerator, some high end AV equipment, and a lifetime supply of little blue ED pills.
 
jaggedben said:
Do the pictures indicate manufacturer mistake, something left out of this panelboard assembly?
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I recently saw a Eaton main breaker that had sticker on it that says it needs 1/32" fiber liner behind the breaker.
I think that line of breakers comes from their old Challanger brand but in any case I wonder if that was missing , cracked or broken.

Andy I would look for any information you have from that job possibly photos that show the breaker installed in the panel, or manufacturer invoices.
Manufacturers make mistakes my guess is factory or supplier error.

andy@advancelectric.com said:
Dear Electric,

On Friday, December 5, 2025 my licensed electrician name x opened our Eaton 400a panel... while tapping out a knockout sparks flew from the 200a breaker .../..He was thankfully uninjured and shut down the main panel and removed all the breakers to inspect. The breaker in question was basically unscathed but the but the bus bars had arced with the metal backing creating a lot of melted plastic and metal. Upon further inspection the vinyl sheething that should have been isolating the bus bars from the metal back of the panel did not extend far enough up to be behind that main 200a breaker. In fact it was strangely duct taped at the bottom as well.
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1766189914894.png
 
Not a lawyer either, but from my experience (don't ask) here in California, we have what's referred to as a "Right to Cure". It means that if you go to take a contractor to court, like Small Claims (our limit is $12.5k, so this would fall into that), you must document that you contacted the defendant to ask for correction and that they refused or did not rectify it to your satisfaction. If you just call in someone else, then demand that the original contractor pay for it without having given them a chance to cure the issue themselves, you are sucking wind...

Edit: Seeing that you are in California, here is what I am talking about.
 
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