Brown orange yellow and 208V 3-phase

[Tainted]

Can I power wires that have brown orange yellow color with 208V 3-phase? Is it acceptable in NYC?

I understand the color is for 480V but the wires are existing that I would like to re-use. I don’t want to run new wires just to change the color.

 

[infinity]

If there more than one system in the building they need to be identified so that you can tell them apart. It's common to use BOY+G for 480y/277 when the lower voltage 208Y/120 system is identified as Bl, R, Blu, White. Can the BOY colors can be re-identified?

 

[Tainted]

If there more than one system in the building they need to be identified so that you can tell them apart. It's common to use BOY+G for 480y/277 when the lower voltage 208Y/120 system is identified as Bl, R, Blu, White. Can the BOY colors can be re-identified?

Not sure what you mean by if the colors can be re-identified.

As far as I know there is a transformer in the building, but it is only for the elevator.

The BOY colors in question is just existing spare wires that is not connected to anything and I would like to use it for 208V without running new wires for black red and blue

 

[suemarkp]

Is there any 480V (or other voltage system) in the building already using BOY color coding? If not you could use it but possible pitfall if 480V ever gets added later and they use BOY for that. If those wire colors are there I'm thinking there may already be 480V somewhere using that color scheme and if so you can't use it for 208. You could use those wires and put red, black, or blue tape on the ends of the wires to reidentify them if that is the typical color used for 208V in the building you are in.

 

[infinity]

The BOY colors in question is just existing spare wires that is not connected to anything and I would like to use it for 208V without running new wires for black red and blue

Depending on their size the BOY colors can be changed by using colored tape of some other method.

 

[wwhitney]

Depending on their size the BOY colors can be changed by using colored tape of some other method.

The rules on reidentifying individual wires in conduit to/from white or green make a distinction based on conductor size. But if you want to reidentify a non-white/green to another non-white/green color, I don't see any restrictions?

Cheers, Wayne

 

[winnie]

Brown-Orange-Yellow for 480V and Black-Red-Blue for 208V is a convention, not a code requirement. You can use Black-Red-Blue for 480V and Pink-Purple-Cyan for 208V if you wish.

As @infinity notes, there is a code requirement that if you have different voltage systems in the same building you have to identify them, meaning that you need to be able to tell 208V and 480V apart. So if you have a building that only has 208V in it, you can use your existing BOY feeder and not change a thing. But presumably the building has 480V in it, and that is why you have a spare BOY feeder.

The simplest thing to do is to use colored tape at all of the terminations of the existing conductors, and 're-identify' them Black-Red-Blue (or whatever 208V colors are in use).

I agree with @wwhitney that re-identifying one 'hot' color to another 'hot' color doesn't have size restrictions.

 

[infinity]

The rules on reidentifying individual wires in conduit to/from white or green make a distinction based on conductor size. But if you want to reidentify a non-white/green to another non-white/green color, I don't see any restrictions?

Cheers, Wayne

Correct. I was thinking about post #2 where I mentioned the neutral. For BOY as ungrounded conductors size does not matter.

 

[wwhitney]

Correct. I was thinking about post #2 where I mentioned the neutral.

Right, I guess if you are using say white for 208Y/120V neutral and grey for 480Y/277V neutral, then it would be problematic to reidentify the neutral for #6 and smaller. But 215.12(C) doesn't require maintaining distinct identification systems for the neutrals, just for the ungrounded conductors.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[hillbilly1]

Brown-Orange-Yellow for 480V and Black-Red-Blue for 208V is a convention, not a code requirement. You can use Black-Red-Blue for 480V and Pink-Purple-Cyan for 208V if you wish.

As @infinity notes, there is a code requirement that if you have different voltage systems in the same building you have to identify them, meaning that you need to be able to tell 208V and 480V apart. So if you have a building that only has 208V in it, you can use your existing BOY feeder and not change a thing. But presumably the building has 480V in it, and that is why you have a spare BOY feeder.

The simplest thing to do is to use colored tape at all of the terminations of the existing conductors, and 're-identify' them Black-Red-Blue (or whatever 208V colors are in use).

I agree with @wwhitney that re-identifying one 'hot' color to another 'hot' color doesn't have size restrictions.

There is an old Walmart in Covington Ga. That every single wire is BOY! EC went under near the end, (wonder why? LOL!) and we had to finish it. Ceiling grid was in, tiles in, but none of the rtu’s pulled. They had cases of chase nipples in the trailer, apparently for the end to end fluorescent strip fixtures.

 

[Tainted]

Is there any 480V (or other voltage system) in the building already using BOY color coding? If not you could use it but possible pitfall if 480V ever gets added later and they use BOY for that. If those wire colors are there I'm thinking there may already be 480V somewhere using that color scheme and if so you can't use it for 208. You could use those wires and put red, black, or blue tape on the ends of the wires to reidentify them if that is the typical color used for 208V in the building you are in.

An elevator in the building is using 480V but the wires I found are not connected to anything. I was thinking of tape but I heard in NYC inspectors do not like re-identifying wires with tape, not sure if this is true.

Depending on their size the BOY colors can be changed by using colored tape of some other method.

The existing BOY colors are 4/0. I was thinking of tape but I heard in NYC inspectors do not like re-identifying wires with tape, not sure if this is true. Also the load I am trying to power with the BOY colors do not need a neutral.

 

[kwired]

An elevator in the building is using 480V but the wires I found are not connected to anything. I was thinking of tape but I heard in NYC inspectors do not like re-identifying wires with tape, not sure if this is true.


The existing BOY colors are 4/0. I was thinking of tape but I heard in NYC inspectors do not like re-identifying wires with tape, not sure if this is true. Also the load I am trying to power with the BOY colors do not need a neutral.

Copper is expensive tape is cheap. Tell inspector to contribute to the funding if he doesn't like tape nothing wrong with it code wise. If you would be dealing with white, gray or green conductors you wanted to use there is more to argue about code wise.

 

[tortuga]

Yeah color codes are probably one of the most common common local AHJ rules so you should check, or dont specify anything --leave it to the EC.
There was a interesting post a few years back, I think it was on here, some EE team working on a monstrously huge facility like an airport, with a zillion voltages 120/240 1PH, 208/120, 240 delta corner ground, 480/277, 480 corner ground, 690V, different frequencies some 400hz , then all the various DC, and a zillion different EC's
and the existing code for all was Black / Red / Blue as it only indicated phasing,
then the conduits, boxes, panels were tall sticker / tagged or marked with the voltage, they posted a pic of conduits with a big sticker on the conduits. I think the rationale was things got reconfigured so often, different systems of the same voltage, and with more than 3 systems you run out of colors.

 

[Tainted]

Copper is expensive tape is cheap. Tell inspector to contribute to the funding if he doesn't like tape nothing wrong with it code wise. If you would be dealing with white, gray or green conductors you wanted to use there is more to argue about code wise.

I'm going to roll the dice and just use the BOY wires. If the inspector gives me a problem, I'll be like "show in the code where it says we can't use tape to re-identify the wire" because there is nothing in writing

 

[SceneryDriver]

I'm going to roll the dice and just use the BOY wires. If the inspector gives me a problem, I'll be like "show in the code where it says we can't use tape to re-identify the wire" because there is nothing in writing

If you want to get fancy, you can purchase colored heat shrink tubing.



SceneryDriver

 

[Tainted]

If you want to get fancy, you can purchase colored heat shrink tubing.



SceneryDriver

If it will make it less noticeable than if someone put tape, then that's fantastic

 

[ggunn]

I'm going to roll the dice and just use the BOY wires. If the inspector gives me a problem, I'll be like "show in the code where it says we can't use tape to re-identify the wire" because there is nothing in writing

Most likely everyone in here has run into discrepancies between the rules and "the inspector doesn't like <insert here>".

 

[winnie]

If it will make it less noticeable than if someone put tape, then that's fantastic

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[Carultch]

Brown-Orange-Yellow for 480V and Black-Red-Blue for 208V is a convention, not a code requirement. You can use Black-Red-Blue for 480V and Pink-Purple-Cyan for 208V if you wish.

I know purple wire exists, and some local rules require it for 277/480V in place of what most of the country marks orange. But do pink and cyan wire exist? Or do pink and cyan tape exist?

There doesn't seem to be a good consensus for a solution, when identifying exotic voltage systems (e.g. 347/600V), even though you're legally allowed to use any color that isn't otherwise reserved in the NEC. Violet is the only color not assigned in the industry norms of most of the country. I've commonly specified black wire with 1, 2, or 3 violet bands to identify phases. Another recommendation I give, is a variation on the old UK standard of red/yellow/blue for 230/400V specifically, with gray instead of black for the neutral. I like that standard, since it's the one foreign standard without an NEC-reserved color for phases, and it uses a hue-neutral color for neutral, so a substitution of gray doesn't look that out-of-place.

 

[hillbilly1]

I know purple wire exists, and some local rules require it for 277/480V in place of what most of the country marks orange. But do pink and cyan wire exist? Or do pink and cyan tape exist?

There doesn't seem to be a good consensus for a solution, when identifying exotic voltage systems (e.g. 347/600V), even though you're legally allowed to use any color that isn't otherwise reserved in the NEC. Violet is the only color not assigned in the industry norms of most of the country. I've commonly specified black wire with 1, 2, or 3 violet bands to identify phases. Another recommendation I give, is a variation on the old UK standard of red/yellow/blue for 230/400V specifically, with gray instead of black for the neutral. I like that standard, since it's the one foreign standard without an NEC-reserved color for phases, and it uses a hue-neutral color for neutral, so a substitution of gray doesn't look that out-of-place.

Yes, there is pink and cayan. Used a lot for identification of circuits such as ups supplied power. I believe purple is still used in Texas. The change to orange was because brown and purple are hard to distinguish in low light situations.