Plug in solar and GFIs

I think another thing to keep in mind that real PV system is not like a steady power source. No real PIPV will likely produce anywhere near the max inverter power capacity for longer than a short time without throttling. An 800W PIPV inverter will likely only produce 600-700W in a real system during peak season for a duration that is likely much shorter than the continuous use time limit (3 hours?) used for UL compliance rating of wires and receptacles.
 
I think another thing to keep in mind that real PV system is not like a steady power source. No real PIPV will likely produce anywhere near the max inverter power capacity for longer than a short time without throttling. An 800W PIPV inverter will likely only produce 600-700W in a real system during peak season for a duration that is likely much shorter than the continuous use time limit (3 hours?) used for UL compliance rating of wires and receptacles.
I think that is incorrect. An inverter with a sufficiently high DC/AC ratio and optimal panel orientation will typically output at its continuous current rating for several hours on a clear sunny day in summer. That's why the NEC requires the continuous 125% factor for output conductors and OCPDs. It may be that a smaller percentage of PIPV systems will actually do that, due to less than optimal panel orientation or exposure, but it's not something that can be counted on from a branch circuit safety point of view.
 
I think that is incorrect. An inverter with a sufficiently high DC/AC ratio and optimal panel orientation will typically output at its continuous current rating for several hours on a clear sunny day in summer. That's why the NEC requires the continuous 125% factor for output conductors and OCPDs. It may be that a smaller percentage of PIPV systems will actually do that, due to less than optimal panel orientation or exposure, but it's not something that can be counted on from a branch circuit safety point of view.
Sure if the DC/AC ratio and orientation were all optimal then the peak output could be achieved. However, based on my own experience and observations of others (including systems on pvoutput.org) I really see that for most residential systems. I understand ratings compliance can't count on such factors and I was just commenting on the difference between likely reality vs theoretical worst case scenarios.
 
Sure if the DC/AC ratio and orientation were all optimal then the peak output could be achieved. However, based on my own experience and observations of others (including systems on pvoutput.org) I really see that for most residential systems. I understand ratings compliance can't count on such factors and I was just commenting on the difference between likely reality vs theoretical worst case scenarios.
Did you mean "rarely"?
 
Honestly my biggest worry about plug-in solar, especially at scale, is not electrical. It's loose solar panels flying around in windstorms.

(And yes, I'm a bit resentful because of all the engineering we have to provide to get approval for some rooftop solar. But installing to standards should ensure the panels stay on the roof.)
That’s a fair concern. Loose panels in strong winds could definitely become a hazard if they’re not mounted properly. I think the key difference is proper installation and following building standards. When rooftop systems are installed with the right mounting hardware and wind-load calculations, they’re designed to handle pretty extreme weather. So the standards and approvals might feel like a hassle, but they do help make sure everything stays safely in place.
 
That’s a fair concern. Loose panels in strong winds could definitely become a hazard if they’re not mounted properly. I think the key difference is proper installation and following building standards. When rooftop systems are installed with the right mounting hardware and wind-load calculations, they’re designed to handle pretty extreme weather. So the standards and approvals might feel like a hassle, but they do help make sure everything stays safely in place.
The problem is that while rooftop PV module mounting systems are thoroughly engineered, tested, installed by contractors, and sometimes inspected, Joe Bob apartment dweller attaching a module to the outside of his 10th floor apartment balcony railing does not have to meet the same standards and these modules will probably become detached in a wind storm.
 
The problem is that while rooftop PV module mounting systems are thoroughly engineered, tested, installed by contractors, and sometimes inspected, Joe Bob apartment dweller attaching a module to the outside of his 10th floor apartment balcony railing does not have to meet the same standards and these modules will probably become detached in a wind storm.
And of course there is that the wiring of the branch circuit to which the PV is connected has available all the current from the breaker plus the output of the PV.
 
There will be most likely new content added to NEC 705.12 in 2029 that is intended to address plug in PV and BESS on branch circuits. There is also a new UL 3700 standard cooking in the oven for plug in PV equipment. Once manufacturers have to comply with this standard I think the price and complexity of the plug in PV kits will increase, maybe significantly. If you want to get in on the cheap buy your plug in PV kit sooner than later. I might get a couple myself.
You might want to keep an eye on the 2029 NEC cycle and put in a public comment on proposed changes around this after the first revision is issued.
 
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You can access the UL 3700 Outline of Investigation here:
It's interesting reading. The standard requires that plug in PV have a dedicated plug in PV outlet installed and the plug has to be proprietary so it cannot connect to a standard NEMA WD-6 receptacle.
 
You can access the UL 3700 Outline of Investigation here:
It's interesting reading. The standard requires that plug in PV have a dedicated plug in PV outlet installed and the plug has to be proprietary so it cannot connect to a standard NEMA WD-6 receptacle.
How many people that buy their equipment from Amazon will ask their landlords to install these receptacles for them?
 
How many people that buy their equipment from Amazon will ask their landlords to install these receptacles for them?
the ones that expect their insurance companies to pay out a claim on a fire. this seems to be where things are heading. wiring against the code, will soon be the next big excuse for insurance not to pay.
 
Not quite.

It still provides for a casual installation without an interconnect agreement.
It's not a casual installation if an electrician is needed. The basic idea of plug in PV is that someone buys a kit at the local big box store, brings it home and unpacks it, puts the modules in the sun, and plugs it in to an existing outlet.
 
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