Whole house surge suppression

[nizak]

Is whole house surge protection required to be installed if an addition is added to a house?

There is no space in the main for a plug in type and it’s flush mounted in a finished wall making a surface mount type unusable as well.

Thanks

 

[suemarkp]

How are you getting power to the addition? Subpanels need surge suppression if you dont have it at the Service. If the main panel is full, it sounds like you are adding a panel somewhere.

 

[infinity]

Is whole house surge protection required to be installed if an addition is added to a house?

Is the service being replaced?

 

[Genepires]

what about something like these? I have been putting these but the 3ph 480v version in our big machines. but they make a DIN rail 240v 2 leg version that in a standard panel assuming you can find enough space to mount.

M9L12240 - surge arrester, Multi9 PRD1 75r, 2P, 120/240 V | Schneider Electric USA

Schneider Electric USA. M9L12240 - surge arrester, Multi9 PRD1 75r, 2P, 120/240 V.

www.se.com

 

[jim dungar]

what about something like these? I have been putting these but the 3ph 480v version in our big machines. but they make a DIN rail 240v 2 leg version that in a standard panel assuming you can find enough space to mount.

M9L12240 - surge arrester, Multi9 PRD1 75r, 2P, 120/240 V | Schneider Electric USA

Schneider Electric USA. M9L12240 - surge arrester, Multi9 PRD1 75r, 2P, 120/240 V.

www.se.com

Are these listed for service entrances?
Not all surge devices are created equal.

 

[nizak]

How are you getting power to the addition? Subpanels need surge suppression if you dont have it at the Service. If the main panel is full, it sounds like you are adding a panel somewhere.

Yes added a sub panel for the addition. I put protection in the sub panel, it’s the main I’m questioning

How are you getting power to the addition? Subpanels need surge suppression if you dont have it at the Service. If the main panel is full, it sounds like you are adding a panel somewhere.

 

[Little Bill]

Yes added a sub panel for the addition. I put protection in the sub panel, it’s the main I’m questioning

If you're not changing the service, then you don't need to add SPD to the main.

 

[wwhitney]

Subpanels need surge suppression if you dont have it at the Service.

Given the wording of (2023 NEC) 215.18(B) and its informational note, seems like subpanels would need surge suppression even if you do have it at the service panel:

215.18(B) Location

The SPD shall be installed in or adjacent to distribution equipment, connected to the load side of the feeder, that contains branch circuit overcurrent protective device(s) that supply the locations specified in 215.18(A).

Informational Note: Surge protection is most effective when closest to the branch circuit. Surges can be generated from multiple sources including, but not limited to, lightning, the electric utility, or utilization equipment.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[infinity]

Given the wording of (2023 NEC) 215.18(B) and its informational note, seems like subpanels would need surge suppression even if you do have it at the service panel:

That is only for when the feeder supplies one of the four items on the list like where a service disconnect is on the outside and a feeder feeds a dwelling unit panel on the inside. A feeder for an addition is not feeding a dwelling unit.

215.18(A) Surge-Protective Device
Where a feeder supplies any of the following, a surge-protective device (SPD) shall be installed:
1. Dwelling units
2. Dormitory units
3. Guest rooms and guest suites of hotels and motels
4. Areas of nursing homes and limited-care facilities used exclusively as patient sleeping rooms

 

[wwhitney]

That is only for when the feeder supplies one of the four items on the list like where a service disconnect is on the outside and a feeder feeds a dwelling unit panel on the inside. A feeder for an addition is not feeding a dwelling unit.

Seems to me there are two possible version of "supplies" in 215.18(A). The first is "brings power into the location from outside the location". The second is "supplies any part of".

I initially believed "supplies" had the first meaning. But the second meaning makes more sense given 215.18(B) and the informational note.

Seems to me that 215.18 and 230.67 could be replaced with a section in 210 that just says "distribution equipment containing branch circuit OCPD supplying outlets in the following locations shall also contain surge suppression."

Cheers, Wayne

 

[infinity]

If the feeder is supplying a subpanel and the aforementioned addition meets the Article 100 definition of a dwelling unit I agree that the SPD is required because it says "feeder supplies...1. Dwelling unit ". If the addition is not a dwelling unit then the feeder is not supplying a dwelling unit so a SPD is not required.

Where a feeder supplies any of the following, a surge-protective device (SPD) shall be installed:
1. Dwelling units

 

[wwhitney]

If the feeder is supplying a subpanel and the aforementioned addition meets the Article 100 definition of a dwelling unit I agree that the SPD is required because it says "feeder supplies...1. Dwelling unit ". If the addition is not a dwelling unit then the feeder is not supplying a dwelling unit so a SPD is not required.

And I would say that our understanding of what 215.18(A) means needs to take into account the contents of 215.18(B) and its informational note.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[kwired]

And I would say that our understanding of what 215.18(A) means needs to take into account the contents of 215.18(B) and its informational note.

Cheers, Wayne

These are basically all the places that will require AFCI breakers to be utilized, pretty certain the AFCI electronics was what they intended this surge protection to protect more than anything else.