johnrumsey
Member
- Location
- Texas
- Occupation
- Engineer
Identification for Branch Breakers
- Thread starter johnrumsey
- Start date
Seven-Delta-FortyOne
Goin’ Down In Flames........
- Location
- Humboldt
- Occupation
- EC and GC
That’s traditionally how it’s done.
Besides, it’s on the approved plans, so tats how it must be done.
Besides, it’s on the approved plans, so tats how it must be done.
Elect117
Senior Member
- Location
- California
- Occupation
- Engineer E.E. P.E.
See 210.5(C).
The main point is that ungrounded conductors need to be identified by an established methodology when more than one voltage class is present in a building. It needs to remain the same throughout the building.
For neutrals, or grounded conductors see 200.6. Same principle.
The main point is that ungrounded conductors need to be identified by an established methodology when more than one voltage class is present in a building. It needs to remain the same throughout the building.
For neutrals, or grounded conductors see 200.6. Same principle.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician (retired)
You can use all black and re-identify with red and blue tape.
johnrumsey
Member
- Location
- Texas
- Occupation
- Engineer
I agree that from the transformer to the panelboard is BLK, RED, BLU; that is the correct coloring. I am talking from the panelboard to the MCC-1A space heater circuit. This circuit is single pole 20A breaker bringing 120V from the panelboard to the MCC. Right now electrician is saying that wire needs to be a RED, WHT, GRN wire since it comes from a single pole B-ph connection. I am ok with doing that but what if later (after wire is pulled and landed) that circuit is moved down one. This would mean that I need to go back and put a BLU tape on the RED wire to make it correct again. Just sounds like I could quickly turn this into a kaleidoscope.
johnrumsey
Member
- Location
- Texas
- Occupation
- Engineer
I guess one of my concerns is that these circuits have a tendency to be moved around during this phase of a project. Usually what happens is a 2-pole or 3-pole breaker is added in the middle of the panel which could cause several breakers to shift. When these breakers shift we will have to have some way to change the colors to match the shift. I know tape is the fastest/easiest but then I end up with a rainbow of colors throughout the project and a customer who looks at that as bad work.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician (retired)
If you pull all of your circuits with with 2-wire MC cable all of the ungrounded conductors will be black so if re-identification is required you could do that while terminating. If there is a conduit system just use the correct colors when pulling.
Elect117
Senior Member
- Location
- California
- Occupation
- Engineer E.E. P.E.
I can't tell if you are talking about balancing or if you are talking about planning ahead but you can always leave space and be on the same leg again.
If A is red and you need to move it below a 2 pole, then,
2 pole breaker added
space
A-Red again.
Or move it to the other side and land it on A. Same difference. That is why you try and leave a little extra in a box or in the panel when you are roughing things out.
Or if you messed up and didn't plan ahead at all, then use some phase tape and reidentify it.
If you need to move it again... well then... I think there is a planning issue afoot. Or just pick the next single pole location where the color matches... I don't think I have ever seen a rainbow. Just a little thinking and planning ahead should keep that from happening. The rainbows come in when you have people buying pink, purple, and other weird colors because they were on sale.
- Location
- Wisconsin
- Occupation
- PE (Retired) - Power Systems
You only need to follow color coding when there is more than one voltage.
I am pretty should there is a lot of XX/2 NM cable being installed without phase markings at the devices or branch breakers.
I am pretty should there is a lot of XX/2 NM cable being installed without phase markings at the devices or branch breakers.
johnrumsey
Member
- Location
- Texas
- Occupation
- Engineer
No sir, not talking about balancing. The issue is that this is for an industrial application (natural gas recompressor stations) and things change a lot between project conception and project completion. Sometimes loads are new, sometimes loads were expected to be pulled from somewhere else in the plant and then minds change, and sometimes the project grows.