1/2" pancake boxes

[electricmanscott]

Re: 1/2" pancake boxes

Originally posted by goldstar:

If you mount the fan to the building's structure, you can use whatever type of box pleases you. It doesn't need to be fan rated. You only need a fan rated box if you're supporting the fan directly off that box.

That is correct but was referring to the box mounting screws

You were. But I said fan mounting screws.

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: 1/2" pancake boxes

Originally posted by big john:
The one I picked up was considerably sturdier than a standard pancake--the metal was much thicker--and it had 1/4-20 taps that would be used to mount the fan bracket.
-John

Unless you are mounting something out of the ordinary this box would be a real pain. None of the brackets have large enough hole to allow mounting with 1/4-20 screws. You would have to drill out the holes to mak it fit.

 

[mpd]

Re: 1/2" pancake boxes

iwire

the box to structure attachment is seen at the rough, if fan boxes are not installed on the rough, and fans are installed at the final, then the contractor must deal with showing the inspector how the fans are supported at the final,

 

[LarryFine]

Re: 1/2" pancake boxes

Originally posted by iwire:

Originally posted by LarryFine:
In this area, city inspectors remark the quantity of fan boxes during rough-in inspection, and make sure there is not a greater number ofr fans installed at final.

Larry is there a local amendment to the NEC?

The NEC does not require a fan box to be used at a fan.

314.27 (D) Boxes at Ceiling-Suspended (Paddle) Fan Outlets. Where a box is used as the sole support of a ceiling-suspended (paddle) fan, the box shall be listed for the application and for the weight of the fan to be supported. The installation shall comply with 422.18.

Support the fan from the structure and the need for a fan box is not applicable.

Agreed, but this avoids having to drop a canopy to prove compliance. Besides, in my opinion, fan installation is faster using the box than using structural support at trim-out.

 

[JohnE]

Re: 1/2" pancake boxes

Originally posted by mdshunk:

Originally posted by j_erickson:
I have a certain way of installing a fan on a 4" octagon where it is completely legal, and for me is better and faster.

Would you care to pass this method along? I've used pancakes and screwed right through the box and into the framing, which is legal. Mostly I use a Westinghouse plastic fan box or a "saddle box". I've never known a way to use a regular 4" octagon in a compliant way for fans. Fill me in...

Here in MA, every house I've worked in gets "strapped". i.e. 1 x 3 strapping or furring nailed perpindicular to floor joists 16" oc to which wallboard is fastened. I will span 3 strappings with a 2x4 on edge nailed or screwed up through strapping. 4" octagon is mounted to 2x4 with 1/4" notch taken out of 2x4 so that 1 1/2" box is flush with finish ceiling. Octagon box is aligned such that holes for fixture bar are aligned under 2x4. Octagon box is sort of turned 45 if you will. Then on finish, fan bar is mounted to box, but also 2, 3" x #10 lag screws are screwed through bar, through box, and into 2x4. (I'm sure that someone will feel that I am violating the listing of the box by drilling 2 small holes in it for the lags to pass through) It sounds like a lot of work, but in reality, it takes me about 2 minutes to install the whole thing on rough in. I like having a deeper box than a pancake, and I've hung every kind of fan on it. There is one slope ceiling set-up by hunter where the mounting bar must be parallel with the rafters running to the ridge. Certain fan boxes will not allow this as mounting holes are sideways or at 45 degrees. What I do is no different in concept than what's been described by those using pancake boxes, I just like the octagon box. Sometimes I'll install the lags on rough so that inspector can see my intent.

 

[hurk27]

Re: 1/2" pancake boxes

By John: but also 2, 3" x #10 lag screws are screwed through bar, through box, and into 2x4.

I hate to say this but just running screws through a box is a violation of 314.23(B)(1)

I use small cut pieces of ?" plastic hose to enclose the screws where they pass through the box.

For the most part we use saddle box's by Arlington Industries.

And these for vaulted or cathedral ceilings:

For their whole line go HERE

 

[davedottcom]

Re: 1/2" pancake boxes

Most ceiling fan brackets are wide enough that you can drive the wood screws up "outside" of the box. No need to try to go "through" it. Unless it's made to let the screws pass through.. as Wayne said, that's a no-no.

I always install the Westinghouse 4" C. Fan Pan boxes. I try not to think about all the money I've wasted!

I guess the main reason I still use them is because a lot of them are not going to be used for C. Fans right away. They will be used for lights but with the option to hang fans later. I guess I'm making the next guys work a little easier hoping it's me!!!

Dave

 

[JohnE]

Re: 1/2" pancake boxes

Originally posted by davedottcom:
[QB] Most ceiling fan brackets are wide enough that you can drive the wood screws up "outside" of the box.

Yes, I normally do screw outside the box, but left that out of my post to try to keep it short.

 

[JohnE]

Re: 1/2" pancake boxes

Also, 314.23 (B)(1) refers to exposed threads. Many wood screws/ lags have half of the shank without threads. So a 3" screw will not leave any exposed threads.