10s and 12s

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dezwitinc

dezwitinc

Senior Member
Location
Delray Beach, FL
Situation:
Circuit breakers are 20 amp.
20 amp circuits fed with #10 hot and #10 neutral with a #12 ground.
This installation was obviously done this way because the installer did not have any or enough #12 on hand.
It is a short circuit (less than 75') so voltage drop was not a consideration.
Is this a violation because the ground was not increased proportionately to the circuit conductors?
 
Yup it's a violation. Will anything bad ever happen to this circuit? Nope, but it still isn't up to code. Pull out the EGC.
 
I'd say by circular mils, as stated in 250.122(B). So if you install 10s (10380cms) instead of 12s (6530cms) for VD reasons, you need to increase the grounding wire the same: 6530 to 10380.
 
satcom said:
yes Table 250.122 Minimum Size Equipment Grounding
Conductors for Grounding Raceway and Equipment 20A circuit #12 is fine.
Click to expand...

Read (B) again. I beg to differ.
 
satcom said:
yes Table 250.122 Minimum Size Equipment Grounding
Conductors for Grounding Raceway and Equipment 20A circuit #12 is fine.
Click to expand...

You mean 'no', don't you? If you're saying 12 is fine, then you're saying no, it's not a violation.

But I'm saying yes it is. Article 250.122(B).

Or am I getting too confusing?
 
Cavie said:
If the 10's are installed NOT for voltage drop, then the 12 is ok.
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Butch, where does 250.122(B) say the ungrounded conductors were increased in size for V.D.? It just says "increased in size".
 
480sparky said:
You mean 'no', don't you? If you're saying 12 is fine, then you're saying no, it's not a violation.

But I'm saying yes it is. Article 250.122(B).

Or am I getting too confusing?
Click to expand...

number 12Ga grounding conductor is all that is required for a 20A protected circuit period.
 
Chris,
Butch, where does 250.122(B) say the ungrounded conductors were increased in size for V.D.? It just says "increased in size".
Click to expand...
I think that was in the 99 code. As I the "voltage drop" wording was removed in the 2002 code.
Don
 
480sparky said:
I got a sneaky suspicion this game's gonna go into extra innings.... :grin:
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250.122(B) states:

Where ungrounded conductors are increased in size, equipment grounding conductors, where installed, shall be sized proportionately according to circular mil area of the ungrounded conductors.

This would mean that if you increase the ungrounded conductors to a 6 on a 20A cir, the EGC would be increased to a 6.
 
chris kennedy said:
Butch, where does 250.122(B) say the ungrounded conductors were increased in size for V.D.? It just says "increased in size".
Click to expand...

Well it sounded good at the time but a the Fonse would say.... I guess I was WWOOwworrrnn..........
 
danickstr said:
If it was oversized for a motor, then the 12 g is OK

250.122 d
Click to expand...
If the ungrounded conductors are adjusted for any reason how would (B) not apply?
 
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