110.26(f) Shower or tub wall with panel in it

[Dennis Alwon]

Agreed. The illustration clearly shows the space above and below the panel equal to the panel depth as off limits. Doesn't matter if surface or recessed although a surface mounted panel is shown.

-Hal

That was my point. I always assumed it was for surface mount but the section doesn't support that view. IMO, the install would be a violation

 

[growler]

I always assumed it was for surface mount but the section doesn't support that view. IMO, the install would be a violation

If it were just a couple of 1/2" water pipes passing under the panel I doubt if most people would give it a second thought. It would still be a violation but would it be caught on inspection? Maybe and maybe not.

 

[Coppersmith]

None of the cables entering the panel are secured.

 

[charlie b]

I interpret the dedicated space as "working space", to safely work on the equipment, not about keeping water from a leak going on it.

I have always believed (though I have no documented evidence that would prove I am right) that the purpose of maintaining "dedicated equipment space" is to prevent pipes and ducts from interfering with the future installation of more conduits for more circuits. One thing that supports this belief is the fact that the only four items that require this space are the only ones that have a reasonable possibility of having more conduits installed in the future. For example, the rule does not apply to transformers, VFDs, disconnect switches, or transfer switches. Once these items are installed, there will never be a need to add conduits.

 

[charlie b]

If I correctly understand the present and proposed installation, I do not see a code violation. The pipes (or tubing, whatever it is) that are visible in the photo are located "behind" the panel (i.e., as would be observed from the opposite side of the wall). They are neither directly above the panel nor directly below it. When the shower head is installed, it will be on the near side (as seen from the view in the photo) of the shower wall. It will also be neither directly above the panel nor directly below it.

Am I misinterpreting what the photo is showing?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I have always believed (though I have no documented evidence that would prove I am right) that the purpose of maintaining "dedicated equipment space" is to prevent pipes and ducts from interfering with the future installation of more conduits for more circuits. One thing that supports this belief is the fact that the only four items that require this space are the only ones that have a reasonable possibility of having more conduits installed in the future. For example, the rule does not apply to transformers, VFDs, disconnect switches, or transfer switches. Once these items are installed, there will never be a need to add conduits.

I agree that this may be part of the reason but then again 110.26(E)(1)(b) allows water pipes over the panel if there is a means to protect the panel from leaks

(b) Foreign Systems. The area above the dedicated space
required by 110.26(E)(1)(a) shall be permitted to contain
foreign systems, provided protection is installed to avoid
damage to the electrical equipment from condensation, leaks,
or breaks in such foreign systems.

 

[charlie b]

I agree that this may be part of the reason but then again 110.26(E)(1)(b) allows water pipes over the panel if there is a means to protect the panel from leaks

But please observe that the pipes must be more than 6 feet above the top of the panel. That should be enough room to install new conduits out the top of the panel.

 

[Coppersmith]

For example, the rule does not apply to transformers, VFDs, disconnect switches, or transfer switches. Once these items are installed, there will never be a need to add conduits.

LOL. I just looked at a job today where I would need to add a conduit to an automatic transfer switch. It contains a small panelboard and is full. I'm going to add a subpanel below it and connect the two together with some conduit.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

But please observe that the pipes must be more than 6 feet above the top of the panel. That should be enough room to install new conduits out the top of the panel.

But that is why I believe it is not just one thing both both of these reasons.

 

[tkb]

Does not violate anything code wise. That said, I would not be inclined to do it if given the choice due to future maintenance issues.

The piping under the panel and the shower head piping that will be installed above the panel is a violation of the dedicated space article.

 

[tkb]

If I correctly understand the present and proposed installation, I do not see a code violation. The pipes (or tubing, whatever it is) that are visible in the photo are located "behind" the panel (i.e., as would be observed from the opposite side of the wall). They are neither directly above the panel nor directly below it. When the shower head is installed, it will be on the near side (as seen from the view in the photo) of the shower wall. It will also be neither directly above the panel nor directly below it.

Am I misinterpreting what the photo is showing?

I highly doubt that a panel that is as deep as the stud bay can have plumbing piping above or below that is code compliant.

 

[Barbqranch]

I highly doubt that a panel that is as deep as the stud bay can have plumbing piping above or below that is code compliant.

I can't tell by the picture, but the shower walls I have opened up are usually framed w/ 2 x 6s, rather than 2 x 4s. This is to make room for the vent pipe and various notches in the studs.

 

[charlie b]

The piping under the panel and the shower head piping that will be installed above the panel is a violation of the dedicated space article.

The photo is not clear enough for me to discern whether any piping is presently located directly above or below the panel. It appears to me that the blue pipe running to the right of the mixing valve is not directly below the panel, but rather is closer to the photographer than the back of the panel. I just can't be certain. The shower head will certainly be on the near side of the shower stall wall, but we can't tell how the piping will be run to it.

I do agree with your assessment that if any piping ends up being directly above or directly below the panel, it would be a violation.

 

[wwhitney]

The backside of the panel is flush with the stud.

The blue PEX pipe goes through a notch in the stud covered by a nail plate.

Ergo, the blue PEX pipe is underneath the footprint of the panel.

Cheers, Wayne