110.3(B) LOL

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jxofaltrds

jxofaltrds

Inspector Mike®
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Mike P. Columbus Ohio
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ESI, PI, RBO
jxofaltrds said:
(B) Installation and Use. Listed or labeled equipment
shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions
included in the listing or labeling.

Carlton says this about their PVC:

"5.5 Conduit, fittings and cement shall be produced by the same manufacturer to
assure system integrity."

So if I see this on the job site should I make you remove all the installed Carlton Pipe? LOL

View attachment 7070

When you should be using this:

View attachment 7071
Click to expand...

Nagh, they pretty much just look for the purple primer here.
Does Carlton make a purple primer?:roll:
 
jxofaltrds said:
(B) Installation and Use. Listed or labeled equipment
shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions
included in the listing or labeling.

Carlton says this about their PVC:

"5.5 Conduit, fittings and cement shall be produced by the same manufacturer to
assure system integrity."

So if I see this on the job site should I make you remove all the installed Carlton Pipe? LOL

View attachment 7070

When you should be using this:

View attachment 7071
Click to expand...
If you want to start a lot of bad relationships with the contractors, yes. And you do have references to back yourself up with. Is there anything in their instructions saying that all fittings, boxes, or other items must also be Carlon brand? There is a lot of mixed brands of raceway and fittings around here even from same supplier, but the cement from the electrical suppliers is almost always Carlon brand.
 
kwired said:
If you want to start a lot of bad relationships with the contractors, yes. And you do have references to back yourself up with. Is there anything in their instructions saying that all fittings, boxes, or other items must also be Carlon brand? There is a lot of mixed brands of raceway and fittings around here even from same supplier, but the cement from the electrical suppliers is almost always Carlon brand.
Click to expand...

Conduit and fittings Yes. Read what you quoted from my post.
 
infinity said:
You mentioned ENT and PVC which is this information for?
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Started PVC.

ENT was because we joked about primer. ENT does haver its own 'blue' glue.

Seriously does anyone feel that using a glue other than what is spec'd is really a violation.

I don't think that different glue is a big deal but is it a code violation?
 
jxofaltrds said:
(B) Installation and Use. Listed or labeled equipment
shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions
included in the listing or labeling.
Click to expand...


Luckily, not all manufacturer's instruction are part of their listing.

In the example you gave, Oatey is listed as the manufacturer of Carlon's PVC cement, according the Carlon MSDS. So based on the 'instruction' you posted there is no listed way to cement Carlon's products together.:?
 
jim dungar said:
Luckily, not all manufacturer's instruction are part of their listing.

In the example you gave, Oatey is listed as the manufacturer of Carlon's PVC cement, according the Carlon MSDS. So based on the 'instruction' you posted there is no listed way to cement Carlon's products together.:?
Click to expand...

LOL. Read farther than me. Love it.
 
iwire said:
Why would they look for primer, are you a plumber? :)
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According to some of the request I get from customers I am!:)

I suppose if they see the primer they assume you glued it also. That is not a joke either. We have an inspector that looks for the "purple".
 
jim dungar said:
Luckily, not all manufacturer's instruction are part of their listing.

In the example you gave, Oatey is listed as the manufacturer of Carlon's PVC cement, according the Carlon MSDS. So based on the 'instruction' you posted there is no listed way to cement Carlon's products together.:?
Click to expand...
Jim,
It is UL's official position that all instructions provided by the manufacturer are 110.3(B) instructions. They say they review all of them and that they are part of the "listing and labeling". I don't agree, but that is their official position.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
Jim,
It is UL's official position that all instructions provided by the manufacturer are 110.3(B) instructions. They say they review all of them and that they are part of the "listing and labeling". I don't agree, but that is their official position.
Click to expand...

I guess then the issue may be: how much of the material on instruction sheets is really instructions?
 
jim dungar said:
I guess then the issue may be: how much of the material on instruction sheets is really instructions?
Click to expand...

don_resqcapt19 said:
They say everything is.
Click to expand...

We now can look at similar issues with using classified breakers in a panel with another name. The panel instructions prohibit use of the breaker, and the breaker instructions do allow it to be used. Carlon may say their cement must be used with their products, yet another cement may say it is good for all products. Does one instruction sheet trump the other and if so which one?
 
"It is UL's official position that all instructions provided by the manufacturer are 110.3(B) instructions."

Not correct. Indeed, only a very small part of the information provided with a product is considered as 'instructions' by UL.

Case in point: Classified breakers. Square D has been using it's "instructions" in an attempt to prevent the use of non-Square D breakers in their panels - even though such a position (IMO) contradicts the UCC (but that's another topic).
The fact is that UL does NOT consider the "use only our stuff" as part of the instructions.

What UL does consider is other standards and norms. For example, there are ANSI / ASTM standards that define conduit sizes; UL will refer to these standards when evaluating conduit and its' fittings.

Regarding primer: You're required to use a listed cement - not just any PC glue will do. The can needs a UL lable. AFAIK, there are no primers listed for use with electrical conduit, nor does the code require priming. Therefore, I conclude that the use of primer violated the NEC.

(That's the 'legal' position as I see it. Personally, I am quite fond of plumbing PVC glues .... if for no other reason than that plumbing glues are made in different thicknesses, which I can choose according to job conditions when temperatures interfere with setting times. Likewise, I'm becomming a fan of primer, or at least a PVC cleaner, in certain situations.)
 
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