110.3(b) question

[infinity]

Is that really a coupling? The one on the bottom looks like it has the lettering on it that is usually on a piece of PVC raceway which I haven't seen on a coupling.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I often have used 1/2" pvc and cut it to length with washers on both ends

 

[retirede]

The only thing wrong with regards to spacers is that they were not used to mount the meter base instead of that misapplied mounting plate.

 

[electrofelon]

Interesting installation. Did you guys notice it looks like the PVC is used as a sleeve for the SEU and it must pop out the back of the PVC thru a drilled hole. The PVC seems to continue past where the SEU exits quite a bit.

 

[electrofelon]

I see not code issue with using a conduit coupling as a mechanical space. It is the same when I use a length of EMT with back to back caddy clamps as a trapeze support for runs of EMT. It is not EMT at that point...just a metal tube used as a support system.

Yup. On a job last year, I strapped up some 3/4 EMT to some concrete precast and zip tied MC to it. The inspector was a real idiot, he noticed it and said you can't strap cables to raceways. I said that's not a raceway it's just a piece of pipe used to secure and support the MC. He still said I couldn't do it and asked if the EMT was listed for support of mc. I said it didn't have to be, just like using say a 2x4 as a running board the 2x4 is not listed for Cable support. He couldn't come up with a response to that.

 

[infinity]

Yup. On a job last year, I strapped up some 3/4 EMT to some concrete precast and zip tied MC to it. The inspector was a real idiot, he noticed it and said you can't strap cables to raceways. I said that's not a raceway it's just a piece of pipe used to secure and support the MC. He still said I couldn't do it and asked if the EMT was listed for support of mc. I said it didn't have to be, just like using say a 2x4 as a running board the 2x4 is not listed for Cable support. He couldn't come up with a response to that.

He should have thought for 2 seconds and realize that the EMT was nothing more than a metal tube being used for support. You 2x4 argument was spot on.

 

[tortuga]

Hey guys,

This question is in regards to the coupling being used as a spacer for the minerlac. It is my opinion that 110.3(b) says that a coupling can only be used to connect two pieces of approved conduit together, and therefore, using it as a spacer is a code violation. I was met with overwheliming response that I am wrong and that AHJ can approve this installation. Can you guys clarify this for me? Am I wrong?

Here an inspector would pick that apart all day long:

• The conduit support is sloppy violates 110.12, 300.11(A). A small piece of uni-strut and some strut straps would take 15 min to fix.
• 110.13 the sheetrock screws used are not rated for the environment,
• 110.13 the vinyl 'mounting block' for the meter base does not look secure nor properly flashed.
• SE cable on vinyl siding as service entrance conductors 300.6 and 230.50(B)(1).
• And no LB or bushing where the SE cable turns 300.15(C).

 

[Sthome25]

Also 110.3(B) specifically refers to equipment, which a coupling is not.

You are mistaken.

Article 100 Definitions

Equipment - A general term, including fittings, devices, appliances, luminaires, apparatus, machinery, and the like used as a part of, or in connection with, an electrical installation.

 

[jaggedben]

You are mistaken.

Article 100 Definitions

Equipment - A general term, including fittings, devices, appliances, luminaires, apparatus, machinery, and the like used as a part of, or in connection with, an electrical installation.

Yeah I don't think that includes couplings, even though it says fittings. It's notable that the list does not include raceways.

 

[Sthome25]

Yeah I don't think that includes couplings, even though it says fittings. It's notable that the list does not include raceways.

Fitting - An accessory such as a locknut, bushing, or other part of a wiring system that is intended primarily to perform a mechanical rather than an electrical function

I am pretty sure when they say general term the code panel means it all parts used in an electrical system without specifically listing every single item. I find it hard to believe that 110.3(b) would apply to lock nuts, bushings, and the like but couplings would be excluded.

 

[infinity]

Here an inspector would pick that apart all day long:

• The conduit support is sloppy violates 110.12, 300.11(A). A small piece of uni-strut and some strut straps would take 15 min to fix.
• 110.13 the sheetrock screws used are not rated for the environment,
• 110.13 the vinyl 'mounting block' for the meter base does not look secure nor properly flashed.
• SE cable on vinyl siding as service entrance conductors 300.6 and 230.50(B)(1).
• And no LB or bushing where the SE cable turns 300.15(C).

Looks like grey deck screws which are fine for outdoors.
Why would you need flashing around the mounting block the siding is still behind it? It's ugly but there is no violation,
Why can't SE cable be strapped to vinyl siding? Are you saying that the stuff above the meter is subject to physical damage? Around here 95% of all services are installed that way.

 

[tortuga]

Looks like grey deck screws which are fine for outdoors.

They looked like drywall screws to me. Here an inspector wont approve a #6 screw to secure a meter, deck or drywall.

Why would you need flashing around the mounting block the siding is still behind it? It's ugly but there is no violation,

Perhaps but its also very flimsy looking, inspectors here get very nitpickey on service changes.

Why can't SE cable be strapped to vinyl siding? Are you saying that the stuff above the meter is subject to physical damage

I have yet to see a SE cable service in Washington, Oregon or California.
EDIT: Now that I think about it I have been to NJ years ago and remember seeing them there.

 

[jaggedben]

Fitting - An accessory such as a locknut, bushing, or other part of a wiring system that is intended primarily to perform a mechanical rather than an electrical function

I am pretty sure when they say general term the code panel means it all parts used in an electrical system without specifically listing every single item. I find it hard to believe that 110.3(b) would apply to lock nuts, bushings, and the like but couplings would be excluded.

Except that there are tons of references to 'equipment' throughout the code that are clearly more limited in scope.

Another thing is that couplings generally don't come with any instructions, so it's hard to have a 110.3(B) violation for a coupling if there are no instructions that you didn't follow.

 

[tortuga]

I would not worry about the 110.3(b) part, I think we can all agree a bushing is required where the SE cable turns 300.15(C)
Ben do you ever see services like this with SE cable down in CA?

 

[DooWop]

They are no longer couplings but have become spacers. Different application, different name.
If a plumbing coupling was used instead would there be a problem?
What's that glob on the top fitting? Water proofing?

 

[infinity]

What's that glob on the top fitting? Water proofing?

On top of the SE cable connector? Duct seal, not required but very common around here.

 

[Fred B]

Does anybody realize that if that backer was done correctly the homemade ENT spacers would probably have been unnecessary? I've used those vinyl backers and make for a nice trim out and conduit will run nice an close to the siding, no spacers needed.

On top of the SE cable connector? Duct seal, not required but very common around here.

Must a NE thing because its used here extensively, not sure how it got started but everyone does it.

 

[AC\DC]

Question?
Why do you guys Run SE like that. Around here its either in the wall or Piped. I would think people hate the look of that. Not criticizing anyone, I don't post pics on here cause I don't want to see were I messed up lol.

 

[infinity]

Question?
Why do you guys Run SE like that. Around here its either in the wall or Piped. I would think people hate the look of that. Not criticizing anyone, I don't post pics on here cause I don't want to see were I messed up lol.

Well it's cheaper, faster, and smaller than a 2" pipe running down the side of the house which makes it less noticeable. When done properly (meaning straight, strapped, and plumb) IMO it looks better than a conduit three times the size.