115 year old house /3 apartments

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jmsbrush

jmsbrush

Senior Member
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Central Florida
A guy contacted me last week about having somethings brought up to code in his Home. Its 115 years old and it was made into 3 apartments.
The city gave him a list on what needed to be done before he could rent them out. The list says this
1) Fire Exit lights not working
2)No operating hall lights
3)No smoke detectors.
That's It. Nothing about no gfci's in the bath or Kitchen, Nothing about the old service cable going up the side of the house looking like spaghetti with no straps.
No outside lights at the doors for egress. Nothing.
I will be pulling a permit for this job and My price is only including 6 smokes and the other 2 items.

Now with being said. I noticed there is no house power there. Just 3 panels for the apartments.
Question #1 Do I have to tie all the smokes together and bring them to a house panel?
#2 Or Does each apartment need to have its own 120v/ battery smokes in each apartment ,tied into each panel?

All apartments are under one roof.

# 3 Will I have to bring those other issues up to code?
 
jmsbrush said:
A guy contacted me last week about having somethings brought up to code in his Home. Its 115 years old and it was made into 3 apartments.
The city gave him a list on what needed to be done before he could rent them out. The list says this
1) Fire Exit lights not working
2)No operating hall lights
3)No smoke detectors.
That's It. Nothing about no gfci's in the bath or Kitchen, Nothing about the old service cable going up the side of the house looking like spaghetti with no straps.
No outside lights at the doors for egress. Nothing.
I will be pulling a permit for this job and My price is only including 6 smokes and the other 2 items.

Now with being said. I noticed there is no house power there. Just 3 panels for the apartments.
Question #1 Do I have to tie all the smokes together and bring them to a house panel?
#2 Or Does each apartment need to have its own 120v/ battery smokes in each apartment ,tied into each panel?

All apartments are under one roof.

# 3 Will I have to bring those other issues up to code?
Click to expand...

Who "from the city" gave him this list?
 
1) Hallways smokes and lights must be connected to a "landlord" or "house" meter and panel. Hallway smokes are interconnected to other hallway or common area smokes.

2) Smokes in each apartment are stand-alone and are connected to the tenant panel. They are NOT interconnected with the hallway smoke detectors.
 
jmsbrush said:
There is one stairwell going up stairs, will that need a smoke detector?
If there is no house power then. He will need to get it, correct?
Click to expand...

You need to put the smokes at the top of each common stairway. Some places might require them at each landing. Check your local codes.

And yes, you will need a house panel.
 
is this hall common to 2 or all 3 units ? If only 1 then i see no need for house panel. And if it is common to others then you have a lighting problem. One way out is if he pays the electric bill on the unit supplying the hall.
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
is this hall common to 2 or all 3 units ? If only 1 then i see no need for house panel. And if it is common to others then you have a lighting problem. One way out is if he pays the electric bill on the unit supplying the hall.
Click to expand...

Good morning Jim, When you walk into the front door. IN front of you, there is a set of stairs going up to the 3rd apartment.
To the left Apt #1 tot the right Apt # 2. Apt 1 and 2 are on the 1st floor
 
jmsbrush said:
Good morning Jim, When you walk into the front door. IN front of you, there is a set of stairs going up to the 3rd apartment.
To the left Apt #1 tot the right Apt # 2. Apt 1 and 2 are on the 1st floor
Click to expand...
Ok ,i assume there is a light of some kind in this hall. Just what apartment supplies it ? Are a few ways around this common hall. You could have a light on photo cell at apt 1 and 2. Each one supplying the one next to there door. And #3 only needs one some where near the landing big enough to take care of stairs. Smoke detector would be at top of stairs on panel of #3. Lot will depend on how hard ahj wants to push this. Last mess like this that i got into was similar but only 1 unit up and 1 down. Common lights on 1 st floor and owners son lived in it. Both panels were in this hall. Inspector didnt push issue of house panel. Basically rewired the 1920's building. While not perfect we did remove all the knob and tube problem (insurrance) and had gfci where required. Smokes were battery only and grandfathered in. Still a fire trap to live in but was not part of my job. You might be best off to meet with the inspectors before bidding. One thing i know is that the fire chief has final vote.
 
I'd be very cautious and spell out exactly what you plan to do, and why it may not be adequate and let the owner take the risk on it being enough to satisfy the city.

It almost seems to me like they are not requiring the owner to update the electrical system at all. Just some fire safety stuff that happens to be electrical in nature.
 
I agree with just bidding from the "City's list" of deficiencies.

I work in a major metro full of different "city" governments. Most of these jurisdictions have their own ordinances that regulate minimum electrical conditions in dwellings (single or multi) that are licensed to be rented. The various city ordinances are similar, but have some striking differences also.

As an example, House service and panel is a requirement for four units and up, by Minneapolis City Ordinance. Another unique one, in Brooklyn Center is: All smokes/COs in licensed rentals must by hardwired, don't have to be interconnected, but they have to be hardwired.

None of this is in the NEC or from the PoCo.

Consult your local Ordinances, or someone knowledgeable in them, for the answers.
 
I just back from the city, and they told me since the building is so old that I'm not required to have to update all of the violations. They even told me I could get away with putting battery operated smoke detectors
 
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