12,000ft main feeder - 120/240V service stepped up to 480V, then back down 240V -Transient concerns

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Hasn't been mentioned, but....

Buried or overhead?
The original sounds like buried, but that's a LOT of trench and a LOT of fault possibilities. And up-sizing the wires vs overhead. Overhead will be a lot easier and cheaper if it's an option.

Maintenance.
If the PoCo owns the line, they'll charge something for the privilege of having it but will also have everything needed to repair when it gets hit by lightning. And they get to size the wires as they see fit (NESC) and not be constrained by NEC sizing.

I wouldn't consider taking a service at the end utilization voltage for this if there was any other option. If the PoCo won't extend their line to the site, maybe you can take a primary-voltage service connection from them onto customer-owned lines and transformer at the end site. The cost of MV switches and metering might well be offset by the cost of the lines themselves.

Have you talked to an engineer at the PoCo about options? If all they're offering is 240/120v that kinda sounds like the business office answer.
The 12,000 ft is probably over private property and so the utility won't want to run the line. On the other hand, 90 kVA may not be enough for the POCO's primary rate tariff. But that doesn't mean a privately owned overhead line can't do the job. 2.27 miles is too far even for 600V. I'd go 4160V with overhead lines. If the POCO won't give you primary, then buy 2 transformers instead of one.

Best cost, IMHO is medium voltage overhead.
 
I am inclined to agree with those posters suggesting some kind of medium voltage solution.

Best bet is probably to sub it out to someone who has a lot of experience doing this kind of thing. If you are not that guy you could end up with an expensive mess to fix.

It seems to me that poles are likely the best option here, if that can be made to work. Keep in mind poles have ongoing maint issues like tree trimming.
 
The potential problem with overhead is you are getting into specialized equipment and skill set and relatively few choices of who can do the work. UG on the other hand can be done by anyone. I have found from a non utility perspective, UG is cheaper.
 
The 12,000 ft is probably over private property and so the utility won't want to run the line. On the other hand, 90 kVA may not be enough for the POCO's primary rate tariff. But that doesn't mean a privately owned overhead line can't do the job. 2.27 miles is too far even for 600V. I'd go 4160V with overhead lines. If the POCO won't give you primary, then buy 2 transformers instead of one.

Best cost, IMHO is medium voltage overhead.
Here utilities run line extensions on private property all the time. In fact the vast majority of distribution lines are on private property with easements. What often turns out to be the problem with a POCO line is, they want road access to all their equipment so they likely won't go in a straight line through a field or what not, even if it's a lot shorter.
 
Here utilities run line extensions on private property all the time. In fact the vast majority of distribution lines are on private property with easements. What often turns out to be the problem with a POCO line is, they want road access to all their equipment so they likely won't go in a straight line through a field or what not, even if it's a lot shorter.
Easements not required either as long as it only supplies the property it is located on. There is often some kind of automatic easement for lines serving an individual property that don't need to be added to property deeds in any way, just any line that feeds through the property is all that needs noted on deeds.

Even low voltage secondary lines serving the property are treated the same way. All typical service drops and laterals are not treated any differently from the basic perspective of extending utility owned/operated line onto the property.
 
An engineer at our poco told me they could swing low voltage over a property without an easement, but could not do high voltage without an easement.
Generally they can't do that even with low voltage if it supplies anything other than the property it is on.

There are old installs with no easement here and there that if you do any upgrading, they can't continue to feed through someone else's property even though it might have been that way for years. Water, sewer, gas, communications all the same thing. If it only supplies the property it is on no easement necessary, if it supplies other properties it must have one.

Creates problems sometimes with properties that were split up at some time in the past as well.
 
Generally they can't do that even with low voltage if it supplies anything other than the property it is on.

There are old installs with no easement here and there that if you do any upgrading, they can't continue to feed through someone else's property even though it might have been that way for years. Water, sewer, gas, communications all the same thing. If it only supplies the property it is on no easement necessary, if it supplies other properties it must have one.

Creates problems sometimes with properties that were split up at some time in the past as well.
This was over a driveway owned by another property owner. Done quite often here, and still is being done.
 
This was over a driveway owned by another property owner. Done quite often here, and still is being done.
There is/was a lot of that around here as well. Generally is left as is until someone either complains or a service upgrade is made to what is supplied by it. Completely new services - they are going around property lines until they only cross the property being served with a drop/lateral, same if primary electric is running to transformer not at the property line - the line to said transformer does not serve other customers, without easements.

When I purchased the property where I live there was easement for a POCO primary line that was run further inside property lines instead of close to the road where they normally are and was serving other properties. This was because at one time there were trees that would interfere with the usual location of that line, though they had been cut down at some time, the line still was inside the property lines. Over time that line got upgraded and was moved to the usual location, and the easement was removed from the property legal documents.
 
An engineer at our poco told me they could swing low voltage over a property without an easement, but could not do high voltage without an easement.
My understanding is that is pretty much the way it is done here too. They will feed low voltage onto your property without an easement but if you need higher voltage customer wiring has to start at your property line or there has to be an easement for it because they need to maintain the lines.

They will not normally run power to a property through someone else's property either, but I think sometimes they do if there's no practical way to do it otherwise.

I have been told there are some very messy easement issues especially in some rural areas around here due to the haphazard way electric lines were run back before world war II.
 
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thingMy understanding is that is pretty much the way it is done here too. They will feed low voltage onto your property without an easement but if you need higher voltage customer wiring has to start at your property line or there has to be an easement for it because they need to maintain the lines.

They will not normally run power to a property through someone else's property either, but I think sometimes they do if there's no practical way to do it otherwise.

I have been told there are some very messy easement issues especially in some rural areas around here due to the haphazard way electric lines were run back before world war II.
That is where an easement is typically needed most any place. Not too often is there an isolated property with no access road to get to it. Even in some isolated cases you may need some sort of easement just to have the access road to get to the property since you are crossing other private property to get to it.

A line that only feeds the property it is located on often needs nothing other than agreements in service contracts that allow access for maintenance. This is kind of a universal thing for all services not just electrical. For one thing with this, should you choose not to comply with agreements, they can disconnect you at the property line and not effect anyone else, and it won't matter if you are high voltage vs low voltage, high pressure gas vs low pressure gas, etc. A line that crosses a property without (directly) serving it at all also needs easements as a general rule in most places I would think.
 
I have been told there are some very messy easement issues especially in some rural areas around here due to the haphazard way electric lines were run back before world war II.
What a lot of people dont realize (at least for here in central NY) is that for most town and county roads the private property comes right up to the edge of the traveled track of the road. There is no public place for utilites to be run so in those places every pole is there because there is an easement that covers it. Lots of routing is haphazard I think both because there were probably times they couldnt get an easement so they had to zig ag around it, but also they used to prefer shortest distance even if it meant running through fields and forests.
 
What a lot of people dont realize (at least for here in central NY) is that for most town and county roads the private property comes right up to the edge of the traveled track of the road. There is no public place for utilites to be run so in those places every pole is there because there is an easement that covers it. Lots of routing is haphazard I think both because there were probably times they couldnt get an easement so they had to zig ag around it, but also they used to prefer shortest distance even if it meant running through fields and forests.
I've been told that my property line is basically the center of the roadway (both roads since I am located right at an intersection of two roads) on two sides. But there is 33' either side of center that I really can't do much of anything with except maintain lawn, county and any utilities that are on that part have right to access that part.

I've never measured it out to see if the number of acres I have on record matches with the center line of road or if it matches up with the "automatic easement" lines.

Supposedly the legal description starts from center of the intersection though and there is presumably a survey stake buried at approximate center of the intersection.
 
I've been told that my property line is basically the center of the roadway (both roads since I am located right at an intersection of two roads) on two sides. But there is 33' either side of center that I really can't do much of anything with except maintain lawn, county and any utilities that are on that part have right to access that part.

I've never measured it out to see if the number of acres I have on record matches with the center line of road or if it matches up with the "automatic easement" lines.

Supposedly the legal description starts from center of the intersection though and there is presumably a survey stake buried at approximate center of the intersection.
Yes indeed some are that way here too. I have a survey map on one of my parcels and it gives bearings and distances from the centerline of the road. I never quite understood why that is.
 
Yes indeed some are that way here too. I have a survey map on one of my parcels and it gives bearings and distances from the centerline of the road. I never quite understood why that is.
I would presume mostly because when surveying was done they only staked "section lines" that are 1 mile apart. The roads, outside of terrain features forcing them to follow other routes, typically follow the "section lines"

When property is sold, or further divided, those survey markers are the reference points to the legal descriptions.

In cities and villages there is more survey markers, often divided into some sort of standard lot size, though a particular property might occupy more than one lot each lot was individually surveyed at some point and any individual stakes that are planted there are positioned more frequently than every mile like they are out in the country. The even less populated countryside maybe doesn't even have survey markers of any kind at every mile, IDK.

Amazing how some this surveying started like 200 years ago (at least in the Louisiana purchase regions) and at least the major reference points used from the beginning are still the major reference points now, and they didn't have technology like we do now. The homestead act (1862) allowed 160 acre tracts that are basically same 160 acre sections we still have today AFAIK. All smaller properties are somehow sub-derived from those 160 acre sections (outside of cities and villages anyway).
 
Amazing how some this surveying started like 200 years ago (at least in the Louisiana purchase regions) and at least the major reference points used from the beginning are still the major reference points now, and they didn't have technology like we do now. The homestead act (1862) allowed 160 acre tracts that are basically same 160 acre sections we still have today AFAIK. All smaller properties are somehow sub-derived from those 160 acre sections (outside of cities and villages anyway).
You want to use the local reference points, not the great technology that we have now.

If your property borders were set by GPS coordinates, then your house would slowly drift into your neighbor's property as the land shifts. But if your borders are tied to the features of the land then your house, borders, etc. all move together.

There is a downside when one of the borders is something that shifts relative to other references, eg. land that goes up to a river....

-Jon
 
You want to use the local reference points, not the great technology that we have now.

If your property borders were set by GPS coordinates, then your house would slowly drift into your neighbor's property as the land shifts. But if your borders are tied to the features of the land then your house, borders, etc. all move together.

There is a downside when one of the borders is something that shifts relative to other references, eg. land that goes up to a river....

-Jon
Well I have seen surveying done and they do find the local reference point, but then use the great technology we have now to measure distances from that reference.
 
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