12-2 TYPE ACTHH[aluminium]

[pqpro]

I would like A good explanation to give to A fellow foreman I work with about WHY no one should use Aluminum Armored Cable with 277VAC even though it is NOT CODE. He won't listen to me because I know that ignorance is bliss in his case???? Please advise Thanx PQPRO.

[ June 01, 2003, 01:53 PM: Message edited by: pqpro ]

 

[bennie]

Re: 12-2 TYPE ACTHH[aluminium]

What is your understanding for the reason? I am full of bliss.

[ June 01, 2003, 08:51 PM: Message edited by: bennie ]

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Re: 12-2 TYPE ACTHH[aluminium]

Are the conductors aluminum? I didn't think aluminum conductors smaller than #8 were currently available.
Don

[ June 01, 2003, 09:38 PM: Message edited by: don_resqcapt19 ]

 

[pqpro]

Re: 12-2 TYPE ACTHH[aluminium]

Originally posted by bennie:
What is your understanding for the reason? I am full of bliss.

 

[pqpro]

Re: 12-2 TYPE ACTHH[aluminium]

Bennie I would have to it is convenent INGNORANCE on my fellow tradesman.

 

[bennie]

Re: 12-2 TYPE ACTHH[aluminium]

pqpro: Your point?

 

[pqpro]

Re: 12-2 TYPE ACTHH[aluminium]

Originally posted by bennie:
pqpro: Your point?

Bennie, he is a "HACK" And this kind of stupidity can have a snowball effect Que no?

 

[curt swartz]

Re: 12-2 TYPE ACTHH[aluminium]

pqpro

I still don't understand your issue here. Are you talking about AL armored AC cable? If so what's wrong with it? Why shouldn't it be used for 277 volt circuits? It rated for 600 volts. In my area AC cable isn't used much other that HCF-AC cable but we use AL armored MC cable for 277/480 circuits and have never had a problem.

 

[pqpro]

Re: 12-2 TYPE ACTHH[aluminium]

Originally posted by curt swartz:
pqpro

I still don't understand your issue here. Are you talking about AL armored AC cable? If so what's wrong with it? Why shouldn't it be used for 277 volt circuits? It rated for 600 volts. In my area AC cable isn't used much other that HCF-AC cable but we use AL armored MC cable for 277/480 circuits and have never had a problem.

 

[pqpro]

Re: 12-2 TYPE ACTHH[aluminium]

Originally posted by pqpro:

Originally posted by curt swartz:
pqpro

I still don't understand your issue here. Are you talking about AL armored AC cable? If so what's wrong with it? Why shouldn't it be used for 277 volt circuits? It rated for 600 volts. In my area AC cable isn't used much other that HCF-AC cable but we use AL armored MC cable for 277/480 circuits and have never had a problem.

For one it is only for CABLE TRAYS, and there is no INSULATED GROUND CONDUCTOR with aluminum AC and to top it off A branch circuit {ltng} @ 277VAC; the unbalanced LOAD the Nuetral conductor can have takes no prisoners. which path would you like the load to take?

 

[curt swartz]

Re: 12-2 TYPE ACTHH[aluminium]

Personally I would rather use MC cable which includes a separate equipment ground wire but I don't have any thing against AC cable. I thought you had a problem with aluminum AC cable vs. steel AC but your issue is not the aluminum its the lack of a separate equipment ground correct?

I don't understand your statement about unbalanced load on the neutral conductors. This load shouldn't be on your equipment ground path. Please explain.

 

[pqpro]

Re: 12-2 TYPE ACTHH[aluminium]

Correct sir, and it is only for use in cable tray as as I know? On the unbalanced load issue, I would want the load to take the insulated copper ground conductor back to earth rather than go through ME!

 

[iwire]

Re: 12-2 TYPE ACTHH[aluminium]

pqpro,

Could you try to explain what your question is, even if it is clear to you it is not clear to the rest of us.

Cables marked ?ACTHH? indicate an armored cable rated 90?C and employing conductors having thermoplastic insulation.

I am going to assume you are talking about aluminum armored AC cable.

Yes it can be used in cable trays, but it can be used for many other things too.

2002 NEC

320.10 Uses Permitted.
Where not subject to physical damage, Type AC cable shall be permitted as follows:

(1) In both exposed and concealed work

(2) In cable trays where identified for such use

(3) In dry locations

(4) Embedded in plaster finish on brick or other masonry, except in damp or wet locations

(5) To be run or fished in the air voids of masonry block or tile walls where such walls are not exposed or subject to excessive moisture or dampness

320.12 Uses Not Permitted.

Type AC cable shall not be used as follows:

(1) In theaters and similar locations, except where permitted in 518.4

(2) In motion picture studios

(3) In hazardous (classified) locations except where permitted in
a. 501.4(B), Exception
b. 502.4(B), Exception No. 1
c. 504.20

(4) Where exposed to corrosive fumes or vapors

(5) In storage battery rooms

(6) In hoistways, or on elevators or escalators, except where permitted in 620.21

(7) In commercial garages where prohibited in 511.4 and 511.7

Note that 320.100 does not specify what type of metal the armor is made of.

320.100 Construction.
Type AC cable shall have an armor of flexible metal tape and shall have an internal bonding strip of copper or aluminum in intimate contact with the armor for its entire length.

As for grounding, the armor is listed for use as the equipment grounding conductor.

320.108 Equipment Grounding.
Type AC cable shall provide an adequate path for equipment grounding as required by 250.4(A)(5) or 250.4(B)(4).

You might want to look at the code book before calling other people Hacks.

Where did you get the idea AC cable is limited to cable trays?

[ June 04, 2003, 05:36 AM: Message edited by: iwire ]

 

[pqpro]

Re: 12-2 TYPE ACTHH[aluminium]

unfortunately I can't type very good so I will make this brief. I am currently working in SO CAL, Los Angeles to be exact and they don't even sell ACTHH in this county mainly because inspectors will not allow it for what reasons I don't currently know. It was purcased by my fellow foreman in Orange county. Anyways my company has two massive 277VAC lighting retrofits which in all is about 2500 plus lites [relocating, adding, and removing] and most of them we have to do HOT. The problem with this jobsite is AMATURES {NOT ELECTRICIANS] did most of the exsiting work which brings big saftey concerns to all that must work hot. this foreman won't listen to me because I am younger and a licensenced Journeyman which he is not. And if you were to see the exsiting work done by manny moe and jack...not to code at all and knowing the inspector will not pass because of no ground in the ltng whips you would most likely use 12-2 MC not BX. So if this foreman heres it from another professional Electrician besides me he will most likely do the right thing. THANX

 

[pqpro]

Re: 12-2 TYPE ACTHH[aluminium]

Originally posted by iwire:
pqpro,

Could you try to explain what your question is, even if it is clear to you it is not clear to the rest of us.

Cables marked ?ACTHH? indicate an armored cable rated 90?C and employing conductors having thermoplastic insulation.

I am going to assume you are talking about aluminum armored AC cable.

Yes it can be used in cable trays, but it can be used for many other things too.

2002 NEC

320.10 Uses Permitted.
Where not subject to physical damage, Type AC cable shall be permitted as follows:

(1) In both exposed and concealed work

(2) In cable trays where identified for such use

(3) In dry locations

(4) Embedded in plaster finish on brick or other masonry, except in damp or wet locations

(5) To be run or fished in the air voids of masonry block or tile walls where such walls are not exposed or subject to excessive moisture or dampness

320.12 Uses Not Permitted.

Type AC cable shall not be used as follows:

(1) In theaters and similar locations, except where permitted in 518.4

(2) In motion picture studios

(3) In hazardous (classified) locations except where permitted in
a. 501.4(B), Exception
b. 502.4(B), Exception No. 1
c. 504.20

(4) Where exposed to corrosive fumes or vapors

(5) In storage battery rooms

(6) In hoistways, or on elevators or escalators, except where permitted in 620.21

(7) In commercial garages where prohibited in 511.4 and 511.7

Note that 320.100 does not specify what type of metal the armor is made of.

320.100 Construction.
Type AC cable shall have an armor of flexible metal tape and shall have an internal bonding strip of copper or aluminum in intimate contact with the armor for its entire length.

As for grounding, the armor is listed for use as the equipment grounding conductor.

320.108 Equipment Grounding.
Type AC cable shall provide an adequate path for equipment grounding as required by 250.4(A)(5) or 250.4(B)(4).

You might want to look at the code book before calling other people Hacks.

Where did you get the idea AC cable is limited to cable trays?

I am not the one who gave this title of"hack" I use the word UNPROFESSIONAL. hack is what 80% of the others in my company use i apologize if i offended you.

 

[pqpro]

Re: 12-2 TYPE ACTHH[aluminium]

Originally posted by iwire:
pqpro,

Could you try to explain what your question is, even if it is clear to you it is not clear to the rest of us.

Cables marked ?ACTHH? indicate an armored cable rated 90?C and employing conductors having thermoplastic insulation.

I am going to assume you are talking about aluminum armored AC cable.

Yes it can be used in cable trays, but it can be used for many other things too.

2002 NEC

320.10 Uses Permitted.
Where not subject to physical damage, Type AC cable shall be permitted as follows:

(1) In both exposed and concealed work

(2) In cable trays where identified for such use

(3) In dry locations

(4) Embedded in plaster finish on brick or other masonry, except in damp or wet locations

(5) To be run or fished in the air voids of masonry block or tile walls where such walls are not exposed or subject to excessive moisture or dampness

320.12 Uses Not Permitted.

Type AC cable shall not be used as follows:

(1) In theaters and similar locations, except where permitted in 518.4

(2) In motion picture studios

(3) In hazardous (classified) locations except where permitted in
a. 501.4(B), Exception
b. 502.4(B), Exception No. 1
c. 504.20

(4) Where exposed to corrosive fumes or vapors

(5) In storage battery rooms

(6) In hoistways, or on elevators or escalators, except where permitted in 620.21

(7) In commercial garages where prohibited in 511.4 and 511.7

Note that 320.100 does not specify what type of metal the armor is made of.

320.100 Construction.
Type AC cable shall have an armor of flexible metal tape and shall have an internal bonding strip of copper or aluminum in intimate contact with the armor for its entire length.

As for grounding, the armor is listed for use as the equipment grounding conductor.

320.108 Equipment Grounding.
Type AC cable shall provide an adequate path for equipment grounding as required by 250.4(A)(5) or 250.4(B)(4).

You might want to look at the code book before calling other people Hacks.

Where did you get the idea AC cable is limited to cable trays?

I am not the one who gave this title of"hack" I use the word UNPROFESSIONAL. hack is what 80% of the others in my company use i apologize if i offended you.

 

[pqpro]

Re: 12-2 TYPE ACTHH[aluminium]

I realize now were I made an error; this code question I asked about is a city of L A code only I thank you all for your professional responses and now I will in the future choose questions to ask after I consult with the NEC first. thank you for your professional time and patience. God bless and be safe PQPRO.

 

[bennie]

Re: 12-2 TYPE ACTHH[aluminium]

I retired from Local 11, Los Angeles. I don't recall this code being in effect when I was active. I retired 15 years ago, so it could have been done since then.
What is the reasoning behind the change?

 

[pqpro]

Re: 12-2 TYPE ACTHH[aluminium]

bennie, I am not sure, but I am researching and my results so far our inconclusive. I will post when I receive info on this topic. pqpro.