12/3 and 14/3 for home runs

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Mudslinger

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Back when I used to wire houses without arc fault breakers I would pull a 3 conductor for a home run creating two separate circuits. Does the code allow that currently and will the arc fault breakers work properly sharing the neutral conductor??
 
Welcome to the forum.

I haven't wired a house in decades but back in the last decade of the 20th century I used to do the same thing. Things have evolved and I doubt it's a cost effective way to wire now. Yes, there are AFCI breakers that will work with 3 wire home runs, GE being one of them, but so many circuits need AFCI and GFCI protection that it's just not worth it.
 
ActionDave said:
Welcome to the forum.

I haven't wired a house in decades but back in the last decade of the 20th century I used to do the same thing. Things have evolved and I doubt it's a cost effective way to wire now. Yes, there are AFCI breakers that will work with 3 wire home runs, GE being one of them, but so many circuits need AFCI and GFCI protection that it's just not worth it.
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Thanks for your reply
 
20 years ago we were running wires and marking the 3 circuits in a house that needed afci. Now we're marking the 3 that don't need afci.

fwiw, I learned to wire in the early 90s using 3-wire home runs. But in '94-95 I had been reassessing that based on a comparison of time and materials. For me, it just wasn't worth it.

I pull wire so much faster than I make up....by the time I ran a home run, then a jumper, then the extra makeup in the first box, and the ungodly amount of time to untwist 5 feet at the panel and cut out all that paper, I was glad to give it up.

Now it's easier because it doesn't have all that paper and the conductors aren't twisted together. But still not worth it, imho.
 
ActionDave said:
Welcome to the forum.

I haven't wired a house in decades but back in the last decade of the 20th century I used to do the same thing. Things have devolved and I doubt it's a cost effective way to wire now. Yes, there are AFCI breakers that will work with 3 wire home runs, GE being one of them, but so many circuits need AFCI and GFCI protection that it's just not worth it.
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FIFY
 
Mudslinger said:
Back when I used to wire houses without arc fault breakers I would pull a 3 conductor for a home run creating two separate circuits. Does the code allow that currently and will the arc fault breakers work properly sharing the neutral conductor??
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It will work great in Michigan where arc fault protection is not required.
 
masterinbama said:
They make 12-2-2 and 14-2-2 single cable with 2 hots and 2 neutrals
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Thanks
James L said:
20 years ago we were running wires and marking the 3 circuits in a house that needed afci. Now we're marking the 3 that don't need afci.

fwiw, I learned to wire in the early 90s using 3-wire home runs. But in '94-95 I had been reassessing that based on a comparison of time and materials. For me, it just wasn't worth it.

I pull wire so much faster than I make up....by the time I ran a home run, then a jumper, then the extra makeup in the first box, and the ungodly amount of time to untwist 5 feet at the panel and cut out all that paper, I was glad to give it up.

Now it's easier because it doesn't have all that paper and the conductors aren't twisted together. But still not worth it, imho.
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that makes sense. Appreciate your feedback
 
James L said:
20 years ago we were running wires and marking the 3 circuits in a house that needed afci. Now we're marking the 3 that don't need afci.

fwiw, I learned to wire in the early 90s using 3-wire home runs. But in '94-95 I had been reassessing that based on a comparison of time and materials. For me, it just wasn't worth it.

I pull wire so much faster than I make up....by the time I ran a home run, then a jumper, then the extra makeup in the first box, and the ungodly amount of time to untwist 5 feet at the panel and cut out all that paper, I was glad to give it up.

Now it's easier because it doesn't have all that paper and the conductors aren't twisted together. But still not worth it, imho.
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I'm with ya. Not worth two pole AFCI's or messing with 14-2-2 IMO.
 
I used to use 3-wire home runs a lot as far as 50 years back, especially for extensions with panel relocating, but the aforementioned AFCI/FGCI requirements, it has become more difficult and expensive to implement.

There is no real cost saving; 3-conductor cables cost about twice as much as 2-condutor, which benefits the manufacturers more than it does me. A larger box and extra splices are often required where the cables meet.
 
electrofelon said:
What a strange wonderful land that must be. I imagine all the children are above average, it's always 73 degrees and sunny, and there is a free ice cream stand at every corner 🍨 😇
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I moved from Michigan this year and I can say that's not true. When it is 73 degrees you are still miserable because of the humidity and mosquitoes , it's rarely sunny but the Hudsonville Ice Cream is delicious and fresh lol.
 
Hopefully no one is still wiring MWBC these days. I'd kick you off my job if I saw you doing those damn things.

As for 1<2|4>-2-2 the cost is more than twice as much as 1<2|4>-2. I don't quite see the point of that either.
 
VirutalElectrician said:
Hopefully no one is still wiring MWBC these days. I'd kick you off my job if I saw you doing those damn things.

As for 1<2|4>-2-2 the cost is more than twice as much as 1<2|4>-2. I don't quite see the point of that either.
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I was just looking at 12/2 and 12/2/2 the other day just out of curiosity.
250' 12/2 - $108.00
250' 12/2/2 - $299.00

Nope
 
The issue of MWBC and AFCI requirements is panel manufacturer dependent.

In a Siemens panel, a 2 pole AFCI costs a tiny bit less than 2 single pole AFCIs (retail price, Big Orange). Use or don't use MWBC per your preference.

I think post #5 gives the best reasons for _not_ using MWBCs.

FWIW I like MWBCs and used them in my own home. But I had a pile of 12/3 MC that I got cheap.

-Jon
 
electrofelon said:
I use them in commercial all the time, just not residential.
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Yes, Yes. Conduit and thhn for sure.

15 years ago I wired a whole business park in Romex, and used a lot of MWBCs.

That was the only time I found a good use for 12/2/2 when I wired a fitness center there. Receptacles every 4 feet all around the perimeter, each one on its own breaker.

I used the white w/red tracer as a 3rd hot, making it a 12/4 to the first recep. Then a 12/3 jumper, then a 12/2 jumper.

My jumpers were short, and saved more time than the extra makeup spent
 
You can use 12-3 or 14-3 home runs and terminate both neutral tails from the breaker to the neutral bar. Land the cable neutral on one of the breakers, it doesn't matter which one and leave the other one open. You will still have to tie handle the breakers together. Look it up on GE, CH, and Siemens sites. They have documentation there that it is still effective.
 
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