#12 romex homerun for 15A lite circuits?

[George Stolz]

Re: #12 romex homerun for 15A lite circuits?

Originally posted by monkey:
because theres so little space on the panelboard legend. I always write "lites & plugs. It fits a lot easier...

Man, that "LIGHTS" is a real space killer compared to "LITES."

 

[iwire]

Re: #12 romex homerun for 15A lite circuits?

Originally posted by Minuteman:
Hasn't everyone of us seen a #14 on a 30amp plug fuse?

Of course and if someone is going to put a 14 AWG on a 30 amp fuse a note telling the same person that a 12 AWG has 14 AWG further down the line is going to do what?

No amount of info can keep the unqualified from making bad choices.

Obviously everyone can label if they want but in this case I do not see a label as having any effect.

 

[pierre]

Re: #12 romex homerun for 15A lite circuits?

Monkey

"I always write "lites & plugs. It fits a lot easier then "General Lighting and Receptacles" plus the HO will understand it better."

If you are following the 2005 NEC, there are new, more restrictive requirements that require much more detail when identifying directories.

"408.4 Circuit Directory or circuit Identification. Every circuit and circuit modification shall be legibly identified as to its clear, evident, and specific purpose or uses. The identification shall include sufficient detail to allow each circuit to be distinguished from all others."

[ February 13, 2006, 08:47 AM: Message edited by: pierre ]

 

[throttlebody]

Re: #12 romex homerun for 15A lite circuits?

Originally posted by monkey:
"Side question why can electricians not spell "Light" ? Hint: it is not Lite"


because theres so little space on the panelboard legend. I always write "lites & plugs.

The panelboard schedule only has to be legible, not comprehensible.

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: #12 romex homerun for 15A lite circuits?

Write lite if you want but it is wrong. I would be embarrassed if it were me.

 

[bdarnell]

Re: #12 romex homerun for 15A lite circuits?

Now that I'm done designing lights, I'm going to go home and have a Lite.

 

[eprice]

Re: #12 romex homerun for 15A lite circuits?

Originally posted by iwire:
Obviously everyone can label if they want but in this case I do not see a label as having any effect.

As you say, a good electrician would certainly find out what the circuit is feeding, and check wire sizes in that circuit before change the breaker from 15 amp to 20 amp. If there is a short note explaining the situation, he will not waste the time investigating, only to find out he can't do it.

 

[iwire]

Re: #12 romex homerun for 15A lite circuits?

Originally posted by eprice:
If there is a short note explaining the situation, he will not waste the time investigating, only to find out he can't do it.

Why would they want to change it?

I guess it is all a mystery to me as I often open panels that have breakers with over sized or sometimes undersized (motor conductors) conductors and it never crosses my mind to change the size of the breaker to match the conductors.

When I see a 3 pole 20 feeding 4 AWG conductors my first thought is not that the breaker should be up sized to a 80 amp breaker.

 

[jimwalker]

Re: #12 romex homerun for 15A lite circuits?

For once i totally agree with Bob.At best if i see what appears to be an over sized breaker i will check to see why and if legal.If under why change it unless its a problem ?Also learned to check what phase it was on or leg and it goes back as the same.

 

[allenwayne]

Re: #12 romex homerun for 15A lite circuits?

People also go 50 in a 30 mph zone,the sign says 30 mph but since the speedometer will go to 100 why not get it there.The reason for tagging isn`t an NEC issue just a courtesy.If the person in said panel doesn`t know what the correct breaker is to be installed stay out.We can over think this all you want.By nature people are dumb and that`s a fact and the NEC can`t change that pure and simple fact of life.

 

[iwire]

Re: #12 romex homerun for 15A lite circuits?

Originally posted by allenwayne:
By nature people are dumb and that`s a fact

Some certainly are.

 

[jmd445]

Re: #12 romex homerun for 15A lite circuits?

Originally posted by Shockedby277v:
[QB] bigger wire less resistance less money .... on the electric bill

How do you figure 'less resistance less money'?

Jim

 

[iwire]

Re: #12 romex homerun for 15A lite circuits?

Originally posted by jmd445:
How do you figure 'less resistance less money'?

Jim

Jim Resistance equals heat and the customer pays for that heat in their electric bill.

 

[mario]

Re: #12 romex homerun for 15A lite circuits?

so are you saying a 100 watt lite ooops light bulb on a #10 wire will use less than 100 watts ???

 

[roger]

Re: #12 romex homerun for 15A lite circuits?

Originally posted by mario:
so are you saying a 100 watt lite ooops light bulb on a #10 wire will use less than 100 watts ???

Mario, the lamp will stay the same, the overall circuit losses (I2^R) will be less.

Roger

 

[pierre]

Re: #12 romex homerun for 15A lite circuits?

The resistance of the conductor is manifested as heat. The heat loss is seen by the meter as current draw - which costs money. Reduce the heat loss (resistance) and you electric bill should go down.

 

[al hildenbrand]

Re: #12 romex homerun for 15A lite circuits?

Whoa!

Wait a minute folks.

If this were a motor, it'd be different, but the example at the moment is an incandescant bulb. . .it is resistive, only.

The bigger the wire (less resistance), the more current will flow and the brighter the bulb will be. . .good.

Put a resistance in series with the bulb and there is more resistance in the circuit and the power dissipated in the whole circuit falls.

Roughly,

A lossless 120 V circuit powering a 100 W incandescant bulb will put 100 Watts across the circuit.

A 120 V circuit with 3 Ohms of wire powering a 100 W incandescant bulb will put 97.95 Watts across the circuit.

 

[iwire]

Re: #12 romex homerun for 15A lite circuits?

Originally posted by al hildenbrand:
A 120 V circuit with 3 Ohms of wire powering a 100 W incandescant bulb will put 97.95 Watts across the circuit.

Al I believe you are forgetting that the customer is paying for non productive electricity.

The heat lost in the wire is unused, unneeded but still payed for.

 

[al hildenbrand]

Re: #12 romex homerun for 15A lite circuits?

Originally posted by iwire:
I believe you are forgetting that the customer is paying for non productive electricity.

The heat lost in the wire is unused, unneeded but still payed for.

Apples and oranges.

Originally posted by Shockedby277v:
bigger wire less resistance less money .... on the electric bill

This is not true if the bulb on big wire, and on small wire, is the same 100 W incandescant.

 

[iwire]

Re: #12 romex homerun for 15A lite circuits?

Originally posted by al hildenbrand:

Originally posted by iwire:
I believe you are forgetting that the customer is paying for non productive electricity.

The heat lost in the wire is unused, unneeded but still payed for.

Apples and oranges.

I do not see it that way.

Here is what brought the subject up.

Originally posted by Shockedby277v:
bigger wire less resistance less money .... on the electric bill

Been on a job where the all homeruns were upsized for efficiency.

All heat produced by the electrical distribution system is money lost. (Well it may reduce heating bills

[ February 14, 2006, 02:35 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]