120v Single Leg???

[truck41trouble]

Mivey:

"You could make jumpers for a X1-X3 120 volt configuration (with center X2 unconnected) and it would work just fine:

with A <-120-> B and C <-120v-> D you get

C*A tied to X3 and B*D tied to X1 yielding

X3 <-120v-> X1 with a paralleled winding between them."

This is what I was trying to explain to everyone. This is commonly used when building out a 120 208 bank.
Ermco makes factory jumper kits for 3 and 4 bushing pigs, as well as theyre jumbo units.

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[growler]

The builder and " electrician" figured since there were no 240v loads that they could just drop one leg and save 280' of conductor.

Wait, this was permitted and the guys work was actually approved? :blink: I can't see that... I mean if an "electrician" can concoct something like this, I can only imagine what else is taking place with his work.

But in terms of saving on conductor you actually end up using more. 120 volt load balanced across two 120 volt legs produce less voltage drop and less amperage then all loads across a single 120 volt leg. 200amp service could literally go down to 100amps no questions asked.

This electrician must have worked for the government at some time, only they can think like this.

Load calculation is less than 100 amp/240V.
I'll save some money and install 200 amp/120V.

Now instead of calculating voltage drop at 280 ft they would need to use 560 ft to size service conductor.

I would like to see their calculations and see how much money they thought they were going to save.

 

[jaggedben]

...
....At the time there was a summer intern working there ( last summer) who reviewed the application and submitted it to the line division.
...k

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

[Frank DuVal]

Got it on pole pig tap wiring. Makes sense now.

Voltage drop would always be for 560 feet, just at 120 Volt service would be twice the amperage (and therefore more drop) than at 100 amps/ 240 volts. And that drop is subtracted from 120 instead of 240!

Of course, I could be wrong again....:lol:

 

[GoldDigger]

Another way of looking at that is that for same size wire cutting the voltage in half quadruples the percent VD.

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[macmikeman]

Anybody here can PM me for a map (fairly easy walking distance) from Waikiki to a house with a two wire service drop and a 120 volt meter. Put it on your list of fun things to do in Hawaii on vacation. (your list , not my list.....) . Anyway there was about ten of them squashed together before a developer mowed down the 9 for new apartments but I looked and viola, one holdout. I became aware of this location after an air conditioning contractor called me to provide hookups for a new ms-18 mini split ac his crew had installed that morning. Boy was he surprised when I told him about how his equipment could not be powered at that location without doing a complete service upgrade first. Some guys never learn, until they learn the hard way. They swapped for a window unit.

 

[mbrooke]

This electrician must have worked for the government at some time, only they can think like this.

Load calculation is less than 100 amp/240V.
I'll save some money and install 200 amp/120V.

Now instead of calculating voltage drop at 280 ft they would need to use 560 ft to size service conductor.

I would like to see their calculations and see how much money they thought they were going to save.

I'd say so :lol: I've heard others bring up all sorts of crazy stuff when dealing with government work. Over sized conductors, 4 pole switching neutral ATS on a 3 wire circuit, hazardous location boxes outdoors... list goes on.

 

[mivey]

Mivey:

"You could make jumpers for a X1-X3 120 volt configuration (with center X2 unconnected) and it would work just fine:

with A <-120-> B and C <-120v-> D you get

C*A tied to X3 and B*D tied to X1 yielding

X3 <-120v-> X1 with a paralleled winding between them."

This is what I was trying to explain to everyone. This is commonly used when building out a 120 208 bank.
Ermco makes factory jumper kits for 3 and 4 bushing pigs, as well as theyre jumbo units.

Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk

Maybe they do where you are at but standard is still X1-X2 with X3 floating for 208Y/120.

 

[mbrooke]

Maybe they do where you are at but standard is still X1-X2 with X3 floating for 208Y/120.

X2, thats how its done around here.

 

[jstjohnz]

I'd say so :lol: I've heard others bring up all sorts of crazy stuff when dealing with government work. Over sized conductors, 4 pole switching neutral ATS on a 3 wire circuit, hazardous location boxes outdoors... list goes on.

Why is outdoor hazardous location box crazy?

 

[mbrooke]

Why is outdoor hazardous location box crazy?

Because a standard NEMA 3R outdoor will do. No need, especially when the fittings (none hazardous) basically nullify it.

 

[truck41trouble]

When I worked for Conoco/Philips at the refinery, Every thing on site had to be in a hazardous location box. Outdoors or indoors.

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[mbrooke]

When I worked for Conoco/Philips at the refinery, Every thing on site had to be in a hazardous location box. Outdoors or indoors.

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For a refinery that would make sense. But an AC disconnect like this on a basic office building, not so much:

 

[kwired]

For a refinery that would make sense. But an AC disconnect like this on a basic office building, not so much:

Only a minor cost difference for that compared to what we usually find in those locations

 

[Besoeker]

Very weird... I too cant fathom why you'd want 120V service.. worried about an open neutral is like worrying about getting hit by lightning...

On this forum I have seen a number of faults attributed, rightly or wrongly, attributed to broken neutrals. Aslong as you have 120-0-120 there is always going to be the risk of puting 240V on a 120V appliaqnce.

 

[kwired]

On this forum I have seen a number of faults attributed, rightly or wrongly, attributed to broken neutrals. Aslong as you have 120-0-120 there is always going to be the risk of puting 240V on a 120V appliaqnce.

True, but a majority of the time you will have at least one 240 volt load in the home (air conditioning equipment typically only comes as the 120 volt variety in small capacity units and those are also typically considered portable units), plus someone has already mentioned voltage drop issues along with size of conductors on services and feeders.

 

[Besoeker]

True, but a majority of the time you will have at least one 240 volt load in the home (air conditioning equipment typically only comes as the 120 volt variety in small capacity units and those are also typically considered portable units), plus someone has already mentioned voltage drop issues along with size of conductors on services and feeders.

Yes. I don't disagree with any of that. I was simply looking at the comparable probabilities of a lost neutral and a lightning strike.
Just in passing, here domestic is pretty much all 230V (yes, nominal Tony) and all appliances, including lighting, are rated for 230V input.

 

[truck41trouble]

I went back yesterday and hooked this service up. Theyre still only using 120v, ending one leg at the meter. I spoke with the "electrician" doing the electric in the house, he also does plumbing and hvac and roofing and siding......

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[truck41trouble]

He also asked me why it was being called a 200 amp service, since they were only using half of the split phase. He insisted that you can only get 100 amps, and the only way a 200 amp service is possible is using 2 legs. After about 15 minutes of arguing I eventually agreed and left..

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[jumper]

I went back yesterday and hooked this service up. Theyre still only using 120v, ending one leg at the meter. I spoke with the "electrician" doing the electric in the house, he also does plumbing and hvac and roofing and siding...... Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk

The state I live in now is full of these fellas.