14-3 to non -fan rated bedroom ceiling box?

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GerryB

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woodbridge, ct. USA
I thought I read in the 2014 that it was not allowed to run from the switch just a 14-3 to a ceiling box that wasn't fan rated. If so I can't find it. Did I imagine that.
 
480sparky said:
314.27(C).
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The difference is that ceiling boxes for light fixtures had to be rated for 50lbs, but if it's a fan, it now has to specifically SAY it is for a fan, not just a light fixture..

Nothing in there about the size of the conductor though, which would be ridiculous nonetheless. Conductor size has nothing to do with what it is feeding, other than ampacity.
 
Jraef said:
The difference is that ceiling boxes for light fixtures had to be rated for 50lbs, but if it's a fan, it now has to specifically SAY it is for a fan, not just a light fixture..

Nothing in there about the size of the conductor though, which would be ridiculous nonetheless. Conductor size has nothing to do with what it is feeding, other than ampacity.
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I said 14-3 , prolly most common. What I do see in that reference is it specifically says spare conductor. I interpret that to mean you could run a 3-wire to that box from the switch box and feed thru somewhere else. You just can't bring a feed to the switchbox and run just a 3-wire to a non fan rated box. (if it's a location where a fan might be installed, like the bedroom)
 
GerryB said:
I said 14-3 , prolly most common. What I do see in that reference is it specifically says spare conductor. I interpret that to mean you could run a 3-wire to that box from the switch box and feed thru somewhere else. You just can't bring a feed to the switchbox and run just a 3-wire to a non fan rated box. (if it's a location where a fan might be installed, like the bedroom)
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What I do see in that reference is it specifically says spare conductor.
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Actually it says:

"Where spare, separately switched, ungrounded conductors are provided to a ceiling-mounted outlet box"

The spare wire would need to be connected to a switch, the way I read 314.27 (C). If it was capped off at both ends 314.27 (C) would not apply.

What if the spare wire, at the wall switch box, was connected to the Hot conductor in the box and capped off in the ceiling box? Would 314.27 (C) apply? Its' not switched.

Jim
 
Jamesco said:
Actually it says:

"Where spare, separately switched, ungrounded conductors are provided to a ceiling-mounted outlet box"

The spare wire would need to be connected to a switch, the way I read 314.27 (C). If it was capped off at both ends 314.27 (C) would not apply.

What if the spare wire, at the wall switch box, was connected to the Hot conductor in the box and capped off in the ceiling box? Would 314.27 (C) apply? Its' not switched.

Jim
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It has to both be spare and separately switched. In your example 314.27(C) wouldnt apply.

I think this rule is a bit silly since it's future-proofing against a 'what if' situation. also, I imagine more than a few incorrect inspection failures have been issued for bedroom ceiling boxes that arent rated that have 14/3 in them, not for a light or fan, but for the interconnected smoke alarms.
 
Jamesco said:
Actually it says:

"Where spare, separately switched, ungrounded conductors are provided to a ceiling-mounted outlet box"

The spare wire would need to be connected to a switch, the way I read 314.27 (C). If it was capped off at both ends 314.27 (C) would not apply.

What if the spare wire, at the wall switch box, was connected to the Hot conductor in the box and capped off in the ceiling box? Would 314.27 (C) apply? Its' not switched.

Jim
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On a rough inspection there are no switches. The inspector moseys around with the elec. When he walks in the bedroom and sees the regular plastic box in the ceiling and a 14-3 coming from the switch and says "what's that" and you say "that's the light," you have a violation. Unless as I said you are feeding thru elsewhere. I am not saying I agree with the rule. Down the line if the HO wants a ceiling fan and calls an electrician, a good electrician will bust out the plastic box an install a fan box. Or the homeowner might put the fan up himself on the plastic box. Or you have a 2-wire up there, HO buys a remote control fan, puts it up on plastic box.?:blink: No good answer, yes, kind of silly.
 
GerryB said:
On a rough inspection there are no switches. The inspector moseys around with the elec. When he walks in the bedroom and sees the regular plastic box in the ceiling and a 14-3 coming from the switch and says "what's that" and you say "that's the light," you have a violation. Unless as I said you are feeding thru elsewhere. I am not saying I agree with the rule. Down the line if the HO wants a ceiling fan and calls an electrician, a good electrician will bust out the plastic box an install a fan box. Or the homeowner might put the fan up himself on the plastic box. Or you have a 2-wire up there, HO buys a remote control fan, puts it up on plastic box.?:blink: No good answer, yes, kind of silly.
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When the electrical inspector does his walk through rough-in inspection and sees a wall 2 gang switch box in a bedroom/s with a ceiling plastic box with a single 14/3, I would imagine that should sound alarm bells in his head.

Jim
 
Jamesco said:
When the electrical inspector does his walk through rough-in inspection and sees a wall 2 gang switch box in a bedroom/s with a ceiling plastic box with a single 14/3, I would imagine that should sound alarm bells in his head.

Jim
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I put in around 200-300 ceiling fans every year in new housing and remodels. Once a year I might , might use a two gan box for the ceiling fan, in a case where the owner demands two location switching for the light kit. Otherwise its a single gang box for a standard single pole switch and a handheld remote control, or a dual speed and fan light dimmer housed in a single yolk , sold by Hunter or Lutron. I'm glad that this thread showed up though , cause we just now finally adopted the 2014 NEC from our previous 2008 , and I went to the code change update class a good three years ago for the 14, and forgot all about that code change. Hopefully we will stick to the 14 for a ten year stretch as well.........
 
The number of 'gangs' at the wall switch isn't relevant to the requirement. You can have a 1-gang, 2-gang, 3-gang, or 10-gang. The NEC doesn't care.
 
macmikeman said:
I put in around 200-300 ceiling fans every year in new housing and remodels. Once a year I might , might use a two gan box for the ceiling fan, in a case where the owner demands two location switching for the light kit. Otherwise its a single gang box for a standard single pole switch and a handheld remote control, or a dual speed and fan light dimmer housed in a single yolk , sold by Hunter or Lutron. I'm glad that this thread showed up though , cause we just now finally adopted the 2014 NEC from our previous 2008 , and I went to the code change update class a good three years ago for the 14, and forgot all about that code change. Hopefully we will stick to the 14 for a ten year stretch as well.........
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Simple solution is require a Listed ceiling box for a paddle fan in bedrooms, Den, Great room/Living room, dinning room, recreational room, or any other habitable room where a paddle fan may be installed.

Fan or just a ceiling light, the fan box is there. That would makes it idiot proof.

Jim
 
macmikeman said:
I put in around 200-300 ceiling fans every year in new housing and remodels. Once a year I might , might use a two gan box for the ceiling fan, in a case where the owner demands two location switching for the light kit. Otherwise its a single gang box for a standard single pole switch and a handheld remote control, or a dual speed and fan light dimmer housed in a single yolk , sold by Hunter or Lutron. I'm glad that this thread showed up though , cause we just now finally adopted the 2014 NEC from our previous 2008 , and I went to the code change update class a good three years ago for the 14, and forgot all about that code change. Hopefully we will stick to the 14 for a ten year stretch as well.........
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When wiring bedrooms, I ALWAYS install a 2-gang box with 14-3 to a fan-rated ceiling box. That is standard procedure for me.
 
To me this is the code overstepping, what if I want to only turn 1/2 the lights on in day time and the full load of the fixture at night or any other control I would like!
 
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