14 awg wire for receptacles

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Bill W

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I thought I remembered a code section that stated 14ga. wire could only be used on lighting circuits. I'm being asked to wire some condo unit bedrooms and living rooms with 14/2 to supply the receptacles.
 
It's fine with the NEC and quite common to wire entire houses in 14 AWG except for the few circuits that are required to be 20 amp.
 
iwire said:
It's fine with the NEC and quite common to wire entire houses in 14 AWG except for the few circuits that are required to be 20 amp.
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Would it be more cost effective to have fewer branch circuits by using 20A circuits?
 
petersonra said:
Would it be more cost effective to have fewer branch circuits by using 20A circuits?
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With copper prices that might become something to think out carefully.Wire use to be the cheap part not anymore.Also think out one less afci breaker.Times have changed.Most romex is now pulled my monkeys not journeymen.
 
The 15 amp 14/2 is fine. It's cheaper, uses less box fill, is easier to work with etc. All of these thing will offset any benefit of using one or two less circuits with #12 cables.
 
infinity said:
The 15 amp 14/2 is fine. It's cheaper, uses less box fill, is easier to work with etc. All of these thing will offset any benefit of using one or two less circuits with #12 cables.
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Not so sure of that,starts at $40 breaker and help is $10 hour.
 
infinity said:
The 15 amp 14/2 is fine. It's cheaper, uses less box fill, is easier to work with etc. All of these thing will offset any benefit of using one or two less circuits with #12 cables.
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I also disagree. For example, I'd rather run one 20a receptacle circuit and one 15a lighting/ceiling-fan circuit to a group of bedrooms. I prefer the performance of the system, where vacuums don't trip the breaker because you turn on all the lights only when you vacuum.

I also like the satisfaction of knowing there will be little or no light dimming when you hit the power switch on that vacuum, or the big-screen TV, or the computer, or . . .


But, that's me.
 
Here is something to add. Using #14 allows for "backstabbing" which is how some speed up the work and therefore increase the profit of the job. I don't backstab for the record. I also don't use 14 for receptacles either, but I tend to not jump all over the electricians that do anymore. As long as the code book okay's both items then it is fine if that spins your wheels.
 
LarryFine said:
I also disagree. For example, I'd rather run one 20a receptacle circuit and one 15a lighting/ceiling-fan circuit to a group of bedrooms. I prefer the performance of the system, where vacuums don't trip the breaker because you turn on all the lights only when you vacuum.

I also like the satisfaction of knowing there will be little or no light dimming when you hit the power switch on that vacuum, or the big-screen TV, or the computer, or . . .


But, that's me.
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You may disagree but from an installation standpoint and given the cost of copper, it still is cheaper to use #14 Personally I would use all 20 amp circuits if it were my own crib but sometimes in order to compete with the next guy you have to use what he's using too. Otherwise he'll get all of the jobs and you won't.
 
paul said:
Yeeeouch! $10/hr!?
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Yep and they better be fast too.Sad that there is thousands of home going up within 5 miles of my home,one large condo within walking distance but i cant wire them.I could but i wont work for $12.They just hire one real electrician and give them helpers to do the work.This buisness has changed a lot in last 15 years
 
It has gotten to a point of cost effectiveness taking priority.Material costs skyrocketing,Fuel cost up.What was bid on a large job such as a condo complex where the bid is awarded to the lowest bidder.When it comes time to actually do the work and the bottom line has shrunk to next to nothing.There is only one way to increase the profit and that`s to lower the pay scale.There is the nations largest builder that sets the price for wiring the homes they build,there`s no bidding at all.Believe me they set the price very low compared to what the bid would have been.This really drives wages down on these jobs.
 
I just revised five apartment complex drawings to use #14 AWG in nplace of #12 except kitchen and baths. I do keep the frig on a dedicated 15A ckt.

The $$$ savings are significant.

1 BR's get common rcpt and lts. >1 BR's get one ckt for all BR lts, and one ckt per BR for rcpts. I know I could have combined all the BR rcpts into one, but that's where I drew the line.

Most of these are "low income" units but we did the same thing for the "nice" ones as well. It's ain't my $.

I'm still trying to get the owner to have me "look over" the installations to be sure he's not getting screwed but he thinks I cost too much for field work. Never mind the last job I HAD to go to the field because of a huge screw up and screwing the electrician did. Real sleeze bag. Couldn't believe it passed inspection. I would have run out of red tags!
 
LarryFine said:
I also disagree. For example, I'd rather run one 20a receptacle circuit and one 15a lighting/ceiling-fan circuit to a group of bedrooms. I prefer the performance of the system, where vacuums don't trip the breaker because you turn on all the lights only when you vacuum.

I also like the satisfaction of knowing there will be little or no light dimming when you hit the power switch on that vacuum, or the big-screen TV, or the computer, or . . .


But, that's me.
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So do you put the 20 amp circuit on a 20 amp AFCI breaker and the 15 amp circuit on a 15amp AFCI breaker two AFCI breakers for each bedroom? or how do you devide it up
 
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