#14 or #12 awg/residential wiring

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iwire said:
I run 10 AWG, no electrical reason, I do it for the bragging rights.It is just one size larger than the rest of you guys run so that makes me a better electrician then you all. *


<*That is sarcasm folks, don't take things to serious:)>
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I'm offended by that statement..........:D;)
 
#14 -- #10

#14 -- #10

I use 14-2 and 14-3 when teaching. Last class I estimated $20 per pupil for materials, it cost more than $40, so there was no way I was buying 12-2 and 12-3.

I use 12 for almost everything, easier to stock, and keeps me from having to have 12 and 14 500 ft. reels of THHN in several colors. For many circuits in my house I run Smurf? tube (ENT) and THHN.

In old school building that originally has a single fuse box per floor, it was common to run everything in #10 TW.

The 250V receptacle rule for residences is silly. How is the inspector going to "know" what the load plugged into a given receptacle is going to be [with appliances not fixed in place]? With my high wattage waffle iron, clothes iron, 2KW stepdown transformer, sewing machine, and active BOSE 901 filter how is the inspector to know if the load is 15W or 2400W? Also all my computers are voltage agnostic. I also use 250V receptacles for portable oil-filled heaters, air compressor, and other power tools. I also use them for testing.

So my first response would be "get a life" and second would be "stare at the 2KW 240/120V transformer".

I often wished we had put in 250V receptacles for computer circuits in the schools to discourage the denizens from hooking up microwaves, coffee pots, and scent machines.
 
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fmtjfw said:
I use 14-2 and 14-3 when teaching. Last class I estimated $20 per pupil for materials, it cost more than $40, so there was no way I was buying 12-2 and 12-3.

I use 12 for almost everything, easier to stock, and keeps me from having to have 12 and 14 500 ft. reels of THHN in several colors. For many circuits in my house I run Smurf? tube (ENT) and THHN.

In old school building that originally has a single fuse box per floor, it was common to run everything in #10 TW.

The 250V receptacle rule for residences is silly. How is the inspector going to "know" what the load plugged into a given receptacle is going to be [with appliances not fixed in place]? With my high wattage waffle iron, clothes iron, 2KW stepdown transformer, sewing machine, and active BOSE 901 filter how is the inspector to know if the load is 15W or 2400W? Also all my computers are voltage agnostic. I also use 250V receptacles for portable oil-filled heaters, air compressor, and other power tools. I also use them for testing.

So my first response would be "get a life" and second would be "stare at the 2KW 240/120V transformer".

I often wished we had put in 250V receptacles for computer circuits in the schools to discourage the denizens from hooking up microwaves, coffee pots, and scent machines.
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:lol: I wish we had gone to 240 volts in residential. It would literally be half the wire, at least. :eek: I have a lot of Euro appliances for various reasons and find myself doing the same. Best part is I can get a 3000 watt oil filled radiator or frying pan without tripping breakers:D
 
iwire said:
I run 10 AWG, no electrical reason, I do it for the bragging rights.It is just one size larger than the rest of you guys run so that makes me a better electrician then you all.





<*That is sarcasm folks, don't take things to serious:)>
Click to expand...


But one does have to use a lot of "Industrial English" when one comes across people who did use 10AWG then to make matters worse, shallow boxes & short wire. :happysad:
 
iwire said:
I run 10 AWG, no electrical reason, I do it for the bragging rights.It is just one size larger than the rest of you guys run so that makes me a better electrician then you all.
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It had better be solid. Only real men run #10 solid, ya know. :cool:
 
mbrooke said:
:lol: I wish we had gone to 240 volts in residential. It would literally be half the wire, at least. :eek: I have a lot of Euro appliances for various reasons and find myself doing the same. Best part is I can get a 3000 watt oil filled radiator or frying pan without tripping breakers:D
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Yes, but don't they have 400/230V services in Europe? Those double pole breakers would gobble up panel space.
 
delectric123 said:
Yes, but don't they have 400/230V services in Europe? Those double pole breakers would gobble up panel space.
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They do, DIN rail for panel to boot:sick:.

But in theroy circuits will now carry double the power, so 2 120 volt 15 amp circuits taking 2 single pole spaces will be the same as 1 240 volt 15 amp circuit with a single double pole breaker. :D
 
I don't even care if people make fun of me for doing it. I use #12 romex for receptacle outlets. All of them. Lights are 14 ga. The deal for me is- never get any callbacks, so there are other time and material wasters I perform on my jobs besides that infraction.
 
macmikeman said:
I don't even care if people make fun of me for doing it.
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A man comfortable with his AWG orientation. .;):)

I use #12 romex for receptacle outlets. All of them. Lights are 14 ga. The deal for me is- never get any callbacks, so there are other time and material wasters I perform on my jobs besides that infraction.
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How do you know using 14 would result in any call backs either? Its not like you would suddenly put 30 receptacles on the circuit.:)
 
iwire said:
A man comfortable with his AWG orientation. .;):)



How do you know using 14 would result in any call backs either? Its not like you would suddenly put 30 receptacles on the circuit.:)
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And that is the thing. I did get a callback problem using 14 during a rewire on receptacles and the lady's floor cleaning equipment would actually overload a 15 amp breaker after running 4 or 5 minutes. That one experience did it for me, once with her was enough to make an impression.
 
K8MHZ said:
Years ago I did a service call where a 15 amp breaker was tripping. The culprit turned out to be a hand held hair dryer that was over 2000 watts.

I couldn't believe that UL would list such a device, especially since it only had 15 amp plug on it. The 'repair' was to get a dryer that was under 15 amps or not use one at all.
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Back when I had really long hair I used a 4000W hair dryer. It was the outside compressor unit for my parents' central AC unit. :D
 
darekelec said:
NYC has amendment that we are not supposed to use 14 awg at all. So i do not use it.
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Years ago wasn't it half way the opposite? All NYC lighting circuits needed to be #14?



iwire said:
A man comfortable with his AWG orientation. .;):)



How do you know using 14 would result in any call backs either? Its not like you would suddenly put 30 receptacles on the circuit.:)
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NEC lets you have an unlimited number of receptacles on a circuits (I know you know;))
But in cold climates with space heaters running calcing at 5va per foot over 3va perfoot often helps out.




One irony I find frequently is that code forces 12 guage wire in the dinning room on circuits that see the least load but when you get to the entertainment room 15 amp is ok.
 
SO

SO

Yes typical is 14ga lights 12ga wall outlets.
I am in southern ca. So the typical house is say 1100 sq'.

However with the requirement for them both to be AFCI protected I am pondering that it makes sense to run both in 12ga. Or you are going to have all lighting on one or two 15 amp AFCI breakers and all the cord/plug outlets on one or two 20 amp AFCI breakers. If all were wired in 12 then I could use 20 amp AFCI breakers.

This is of course taking the kitchen and bathroom taken out of the game as they have different requirements.

I am a commercial/industrial electrician and I am playing with residential remodels. The only time I have played with 14 gauge is low voltage devices. Standard has been 12 and 10.

Thoughts on how the AFCI requirements have changed wire size choices?
 
My vacuum cleaner won't work with #14:

GiantVacuumCleaner.jpg
 
#14 for everything, and #12 for only what is required. Lights, smokes, & receptacles all together.

I keep it to around 10-12 points (receptacle & lights) per circuit, and that works out pretty well. I know a guy who does closer to 15 per circuit, and he doesn't seem to have any problems with call backs.
 
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