180-240VAC, 50Hz fractional HP motor

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tortuga

tortuga

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Electrical Design
Greetings all, I am posting this to the engineering forum as this concerns equipment only and my understanding (or lack there of) of small appliance motors.

A customer has got a special piece of kitchen equipment form India (and yes it has to be this one).
It needs 180-240VAC, 50Hz its probably a 1/3 HP, nameplate says 225 Watts.
I would rather not open this up and mess around with the internals.
Now I know manufacturing plants with big motors and bigger check books we just go buy the best VFD's problem solved but what do I do for the little guy?

My first thought is to just run it off 60HZ as V/HZ ratio is within the spec: 200V/50HZ = 4 and 240V/60 =4
However my second thought is, its a food mixer of some sort so I bet the RPM's matter and it would be 1800 not 1500 so i better supply it with 50hz.
any thoughts from the experts ?
Thanks in advance
 
Does the mixer have an internal variable speed control? If so, then it might be able to achieve an acceptable range of RPMs even at 60Hz..
 
Is the mixer driven by belt or is it geared? It would be an easy job if the unit is belted. Just a short visit to a shop and change the sheave diameters.
 
If this is a table top appliance (225W would likely make it so), chances are good that it is a Universal (AC/DC) motor and the incoming line frequency is irrelevant. If the speeds are in the 5,000RPM or up range, it definietly is a Universal motor.
 
Interesting point Jraef
'universal motor' like how old corded milwaukee tooks used to say 120 AC/DC ?
If 60HZ will work I can just wire it on a NEMA 6-15 cord cap for him job done.
I actually found the mixer on line its pretty basic:
www.ponmani.com

Ponmani Power Plus

Buy Ponmani Power Plus Table Top Wet Grinder. Price of Ponmani Power Plus Table Top Wet Grinder. Purchase Online Ponmani Power Plus Table Top Wet Grinder.
www.ponmani.com www.ponmani.com
luk.jpg-smaller.jpg
 
the line "Motor: 225W single phase 1440 rpm" makes it look like the motor is a four pole induction motor.
Connecting to 240V, 60 HZ, the motor will turn 1760 - 1740rpm (or so)

Open it up and see if it has brushes. If it does, it is a Universal motor and as already said, it will be fine.

If not, I don't know .
 
Given that now we know it is apparently running granite wheel rollers, it's probably NOT a universal motor. So long as the added 300+ RPM is not bad for the granite rollers, should be fine.
 
How is it we know "it apparently running granite wheel rollers"?
Why would having granite rollers mean it has an induction motor?
 
Well it sounds like I gotta take it apart afterall. When he brings it over to my shop ill take it apart and post an update.
I did see some inexpensive 230V 50HZ 500W 'true' sinewave inverters online, so I could simply use a 12VDC supply and give it the power it wants:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33028048703.html
Unbelievable for under $100, it will be interesting to buy one of these and see how 'true' they are.
 
Jraef said:
Given that now we know it is apparently running granite wheel rollers, it's probably NOT a universal motor. So long as the added 300+ RPM is not bad for the granite rollers, should be fine.
Click to expand...
I don't know about mixers but the increased power required for the 20% increase in speed might be a concern.
 
tortuga said:
... I did see some inexpensive 230V 50HZ 500W 'true' sinewave inverters online, so I could simply use a 12VDC supply and give it the power it wants:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33028048703.html
Unbelievable for under $100, it will be interesting to buy one of these and see how 'true' they are.
Click to expand...

That is a pretty good idea. Battery charger (Power supply) straight to the inverter - no battery. I didn't look up your link. So I don't know the available ratings. You may need 2X to 2.5X to account for the inrush. 700VA would take a 55A power supply. Or add the battery to take care of the inrush. Still 700VA for the inverter, but the power supply drops to maybe 1.5X = 40A

If they have one with a 24V or even 48V and the price doesn't jump much, consider one of them.

You don't get to connect the mixer to 50HZ and verify inrush, normal cyclic overloads. So my inclination would be to size it out pretty fat. Bummer to have to do it twice if you are a bit small
 
I wonder if one of those little 240V fractional HP Panasonic or ABB VFD's would care if one phase was not connected? I know they do some smart sensing.
 
tortuga said:
Well it sounds like I gotta take it apart afterall. When he brings it over to my shop ill take it apart and post an update.
I did see some inexpensive 230V 50HZ 500W 'true' sinewave inverters online, so I could simply use a 12VDC supply and give it the power it wants:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33028048703.html
Unbelievable for under $100, it will be interesting to buy one of these and see how 'true' they are.
Click to expand...


When you get it apart please take pictures of the motor and internals, that will make it easier for discussion.

I'm betting 240 volts 60Hz won't be an issue.
 
iceworm said:
How is it we know "it apparently running granite wheel rollers"?
Why would having granite rollers mean it has an induction motor?
Click to expand...
Because he posted a link to it and that's what it is.
A universal motor would have been used for high speed applications, I was originally thinking blender or something like a stand mixer with a high speed motor and gear box. But from the looks of this, it's a granite wheel grinder. Slow turning, low torque requirement, no need for a high speed universal motor.
Ponmani-Drum.jpgPonmani-Roller-Stone-Assembly.jpg
 
The picture tells it all! All you have to do is measure the motor speed when connected to the 60 Hz supply and then compute for the proper pulley diameters to achieve the needed rpm!
 
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