(2) 14-2 vs (1) 14-3

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Ponchik

Ponchik

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Location
CA
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Electronologist
I like to confirm that installing (2) 2 conductor NM cable for a single ceiling fan with a light is a violation. If it is a single fan/light unit it has to have a 14-3 in order for it to be code compliant. Assuming that the unit has a wall controls.
 
chris kennedy said:
I think your right. 310.4 for your grounded conductor.
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That would assume that you are using both whites as grounded conductors and that they are connected together at both ends. There would be no need to connect them together at the load end ...one for the light and one for the fan, just like the hots. There would also be no reason to use both whites...just use the two blacks and one white.
300.3(B) would permit that.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
That would assume that you are using both whites as grounded conductors and that they are connected together at both ends. There would be no need to connect them together at the load end ...one for the light and one for the fan, just like the hots. There would also be no reason to use both whites...just use the two blacks and one white.
300.3(B) would permit that.
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But all current carrying conductors have to be in the same cable. 300.3(B)
 
Cavie said:
One sw, One 14/2 for the fan. One sw, One 14/2 for the light. No problem.
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You have (2) 14-2 going to the fan and the fan has 2 hots and one neutral. So the Neutral of the fan has to connect to one of the neutrals from one of the 14-2 neutral. If both neutrals are connected together along with the fan neutral then that is a violation (paralleled neutral) if only one neutral from one of the 14-2 is used then that is a violation of the 300.3(b).

or unless i am not understanding 300.3(b)??
 
edward said:
or unless i am not understanding 300.3(b)??
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You are not reading it far enough.

300.3 Conductors.

(B) Conductors of the Same Circuit.

(3) Nonferrous Wiring Methods. Conductors in wiring
methods with a nonmetallic or other nonmagnetic sheath,
where run in different raceways, auxiliary gutters, cable
trays, trenches, cables, or cords, shall comply with the provisions
of 300.20(B). Conductors in single-conductor Type
MI cable with a nonmagnetic sheath shall comply with the
provisions of 332.31. Conductors of single-conductor Type
MC cable with a nonmagnetic sheath shall comply with the
provisions of 330.31, 330.116, and 300.20(B).
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That said I agree with Chris about 310.4
 
iwire said:
You are not reading it far enough.



That said I agree with Chris about 310.4
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I am sorry i am having a brain f***t and can't see how these articles would allow the installation.

300.3(b)(3) refers to 300.20(b) and that article talks about individual conductors passing through a metal with magnetic properties...... I also don't see how 310.4 allows this installation.

I will re-read this again tomorrow. I may be too tired???
 
1793 said:
Would this not parallel the neutrals from the sw to fan/light?
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All the fans I have hung over the years have a seperate neutral for the light kit. If not, think outside the box and install one. Personally, I would run 14/3 but some people count penny's instead of quality and time.
 
It depends on the fan for sure. Some have separate neutral however as Don pointed out if one neutral is connected and it is non ferrous cable like NM it is legal. If the wires are run together than that would eliminate any emf's also.
 
Honestly all of the fans that i have installed have only one neutral, besides i always install a 14-3.

(besides the (2) 14-2) I am still confused how 300.3(b)(3) & 300.20(b) allow the current carrying conductors to be away form each other.
I always have learned (or understood) that all CCC must be in the same raceway and/or cable to minimize the magnetic field there for the heating.

it seems like i could have been wrong all this time????
 
squaredan said:
Are you saying that you must size the ground according to 250.122?
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No , he mentioned 310.4 why would 250.122 have anything to do with it? 310.4 is for conductors in parallel. If the OP connects both white wires in the NM cable to the fan neutral then you violate 310.4. That is why Don suggested not connecting one white wire.

BTW, I was thinking bath fan/light. If this is a ceiling fan then I agree there is only one neutral at the fan.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
No , he mentioned 310.4 why would 250.122 have anything to do with it? 310.4 is for conductors in parallel. If the OP connects both white wires in the NM cable to the fan neutral then you violate 310.4. That is why Don suggested not connecting one white wire.

BTW, I was thinking bath fan/light. If this is a ceiling fan then I agree there is only one neutral at the fan.
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My mistake, Im not the best reader..Ground conductor not Grounding conductor, duh!
 
edward said:
300.3(b)(3) refers to 300.20(b) and that article talks about individual conductors passing through a metal with magnetic properties...... I also don't see how 310.4 allows this installation.
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Edward, what rule requires the second white insulated conductor from being connected at all, on either end?

300.(B)(3) permits a branch circuit's conductors to be run in different NM cables. If the second white conductor is not connected to anything on either end 300.4 doesn't come into play.
 
Cavie said:
All the fans I have hung over the years have a seperate neutral for the light kit. If not, think outside the box and install one. Personally, I would run 14/3 but some people count penny's instead of quality and time.
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Interesting.....I have installed hundreds of fans of most makes and designs and have never come across one that had a separate neutral for the lights.
 
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