2-car garage

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oldsparky52

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Wilmington, NC USA
Can you make the case that a duplex receptacle installed centered between the 2 vehicle spaces of a 2-car garage satisfies 210.52(G)(1) from the 2014 [FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]NEC ?

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(1) Garages. In each attached garage and in each detached
garage with electric power. The branch circuit supplying
this receptacle(s) shall not supply outlets outside of the
garage. At least one receptacle outlet shall be installed for
each car space.
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Receptacle Outlet. An outlet where one or more receptacles
are installed.
Click to expand...
 
oldsparky52 said:
Can you make the case that a duplex receptacle installed centered between the 2 vehicle spaces of a 2-car garage satisfies 210.52(G)(1) from the 2014 [FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]NEC ?

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This has been discussed before here and in my opinion the current wording requires us to install 'a place to install a receptacle for each car'.

So in my opinion a two car garage requires two boxes.

Ultimately it is the AHJs decision that will matter.
 
I say one duplex satisfies the requirement because the wording does not say "in each car space", but as Bob stated it's not up to me to decide. :)
 
infinity said:
I say one duplex satisfies the requirement because the wording does not say "in each car space", but as Bob stated it's not up to me to decide. :)
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i have no issue with locating them outside the car space.:)

But I still feel the current wording requires two boxes (receptacle outlets) they could be located side by side between the car spaces.
 
As discussed before it comes down to the use of the word outlet in the requirement. After reading the original proposal the current wording is horrible since it called out the use of extension cords. So if two boxes and devices are required for a two car garage and the goal is to limit the use of extension cords (not sure how that comes into play) then the location of the outlets should be specified too. Two receptacles in separate boxes stuck in one corner of the garage would satisfy the wording even if that makes no sense. :slaphead:
 
infinity said:
I say one duplex satisfies the requirement because the wording does not say "in each car space", but as Bob stated it's not up to me to decide. :)
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I agree with Bob. The wording says to install a receptacle outlet for each car space, not a receptacle for each car space. The definitions of receptacle and receptacle outlet (IMO) say that a duplex receptacle installed in a single gang box is just one receptacle outlet. If fact, the way I read the definitions, a 2-gang box with two duplex receptacles would still be considered one "receptacle outlet" according to the definition of "receptacle outlet". I believe that is why Bob keeps saying two boxes are required, and I agree.

But, if the NC AHJ wants to allow one duplex receptacle to satisfy this requirement, who am I to argue (oh yea, I love to argue, :lol: ).
 
oldsparky52 said:
I agree with Bob. The wording says to install a receptacle outlet for each car space, not a receptacle for each car space. The definitions of receptacle and receptacle outlet (IMO) say that a duplex receptacle installed in a single gang box is just one receptacle outlet. If fact, the way I read the definitions, a 2-gang box with two duplex receptacles would still be considered one "receptacle outlet" according to the definition of "receptacle outlet". I believe that is why Bob keeps saying two boxes are required, and I agree.
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On second thought, given the definition in Article 100 of Receptacle Outlet I would agree, I have a problem with putting two single gang boxes next to each other and being code complaint rather than a duplex in a single box because neither seem to satisfy the original intent of the code requirement.
 
If you cut both tabs on the duplex receptacle pigtail both devises in a single gang devise box, how many outlets do you have?

Now i'm going to read over the link that was posted to the discussion on this.

Edit: Never mind there wasn’t a link posted it was just mention it was discussed here before
 
david said:
If you cut both tabs on the duplex receptacle pigtail both devises in a single gang devise box, how many outlets do you have?

Now i'm going to read over the link that was posted to the discussion on this.

Edit: Never mind there wasn’t a link posted it was just mention it was discussed here before
Click to expand...

Here's the problem the definition from Article 100 seems to require two boxes.

Receptacle Outlet. An outlet where one or more recep-
tacles are installed.
Click to expand...
 
infinity said:
Here's the problem the definition from Article 100 seems to require two boxes.
Click to expand...

I agree it can be read that way>>>>>>>>>

Receptacle Outlet. An outlet where one or more receptacles are installed.

I guess by that definition I can gang together four gangable devise boxes and supply four separate receptacles with four separate branch circuits and still have to define that as one receptacle outlet.

If it was looked at in the broader sense of being a branch circuit out let or even a branch circuit receptacle outlet. It would have the allowance to supply a gangable box with a multiwire circuit and consider that two receptacle outlets.

I can see the definition of receptacle outlet says one or more receptacles and most likely was referring to devises tabbed together on a single yoke. To me it seems silly to define two receptacle of two separate branch circuits as a single receptacle outlet. But if I go strictly with the definition given for receptacle outlet it doesn’t seem make a distinguishable difference.

In a more conventional application of the definition of outlet it would seem more in line if the definition of a receptacle outlet was understood as a single point on a branch circuit where one or more receptacle where installed.

Outlet. A point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment.

Receptacle Outlet. An outlet where one or more receptacles are installed.

If the definition of an outlet is clearly understood to be a single point (connection to a branch circuit) and a receptacle outlet must first be understood to be an outlet how does multiple connection points (pig tails) to the branch circuit get defined as a single outlet just because there in the same box?
 
iwire said:
Two receptacles yet just one receptacle outlet.

I agree it is messed up. :D
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Yes two receptacles (and two outlets) and I agree it can be read as one receptacle outlet.

And I would be more inclined to agree if the device was a duplex receptacle. And yes I agree it is messed up.

But I also think because it first must meet the definition of an outlet there is room to read it differently

In a particle scene ether way it is read will not be hard to comply with and i hope the inspectors wont fuss to much about it.
 
infinity said:
IMO that would be no different than a single duplex receptacle since it would be considered one receptacle outlet.
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I agree that is still one receptacle outlet.
This has been addressed in the first draft of the 2017.
(1) Garages.
In each attached garage and in each detached garage with electric power, the branch circuit supplying this receptacle(s) shall not supply
outlets outside of the garage. At least one receptacle outlet shall be installed in each vehicle bay and not more than 1.7 m (5 1⁄2 ft) above the floor.
Click to expand...
Note the wording of the second seems poor to me.
 
infinity said:
IMO that would be no different than a single duplex receptacle since it would be considered one receptacle outlet.
Click to expand...
Yes, as written I agree but I doubt one would get turned down for that. Seriously - use 2 boxes next to each other and it is okay but a 2 gang box is not compliant-- how stupid is that.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
I agree that is still one receptacle outlet.
This has been addressed in the first draft of the 2017.

Note the wording of the second seems poor to me.
Click to expand...

I figured that someone would have come up with a better requirement because the 2014 would have allowed the receptacle(s) to be anywhere in the garage. How is the term vehicle bay defined? If you had a two car garage would you divide it down the middle with one receptacle on each side?
 
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