2 Kitchens sharing an appliance circuit

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aelectricalman

aelectricalman

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KY
I fell pretty certain that you cant do this but someone argued with me beating it into the ground, so I will ask someone for the article.

First, the 1st floor kitchen already has 2 appliance circuit but needs a third (for 1st floor wetbar). The basement wet bar needs an additional 2 appliance circuits also. Since the third upstairs appliance circuit (for upstairs wet bar) is only going to have a small load, can it be shared with a wet bar area directly below it in the basement. Basically can I share a circuit between two wet bars.

Secondly, does a wetbar seperate from a kitchen even require 2 appliance circuits. It has a sink, refrigerator and a dishwasher. Is it therefore considered a Kitchen? What makes it a kitchen? Please feel free to address each question seperately. Sorry for hitting you all with a 2 for 1 question! Thanks
 
Re: 2 Kitchens sharing an appliance circuit

In the '05, the definition of a kitchen has been added in:
210.8(B)(2).-for the purposes of this section, a kitchen is an area with a sink and permanent facilities for food preparation and cooking.
Even though we have not adopted the '05, I use this type of information for guidance... kind of like "Back to the Future".
Wet bars do not require small appliance branch circuits.
There is no minimum requirement for the number of circuits supplying a wet bar(s).

Pierre

[ January 09, 2005, 08:24 AM: Message edited by: pierre ]
 
Re: 2 Kitchens sharing an appliance circuit

When your house has designs for three wet bars, you might be an alcoholic. :) What is a "section," 210 or 210.8?

[ January 09, 2005, 10:27 AM: Message edited by: georgestolz ]
 
Re: 2 Kitchens sharing an appliance circuit

The circuits designated for the counter top appliance circuit are just that even if it does allow you to pick up dining and so on...it is specific on what you can pick up in the language.

I would say ( my opinion )is that you are not able to drop from the floor above which is a SA circuit figured into the requirement for the kitchen and so on and tap into another area...as listed above that would not be considered a SA circuit for a wet bar....atleast in the 1999 which we are still using in VA.....but nothing says you can't tap another circuit as long as it can compute to handle the load intended for the addded items of the wet bar.

Personally as a instructor I would tell a student to run it's own circuit to it if possible because you don't know what someone might add at the wet bar.
 
Re: 2 Kitchens sharing an appliance circuit

"210.52(B)(3)... No small-appliance branch circuit shall serve more than one kitchen."

Jim brings up a good point. If the wetbar is in the kitchen, is it a wetbar or a countertop?

If the wetbar is not in the kitchen, the coutertop requirement for receptacle placement as for kitchen countertops is not part of the requirements for wetbar countertops.

210.52(C) Countertops. In kitchens and dining rooms...

The countertop reqiurement for spacing of receptacles does not pertain to wetbar countertops, maybe... unless they are located in kitchens? :roll:

Pierre
 
Re: 2 Kitchens sharing an appliance circuit

So I guess the question is, can I share a circuit between 2 wetbars? After reevaluation there will be a small mini Fridge in each and a blender in each that will never be used at the same times. There will no dishwashers in these wet bars. I will need to place 2 plugs in each bar as well.

So to summarize, 2 mini fridges, 4 plugs. 20 Amp circuit. The wetbar is seperated from the kitchen by a door. The one downstairs is alone in a room. Both have sinks. No appliance circuits are needed. Will I just use the VA of the appliances?
 
Re: 2 Kitchens sharing an appliance circuit

Yes, you are correct. If it were me , I would run a multi-wire branch circuit between the wet bars splitting up the load. Just might throw a big party and have all the bars open at once.
 
Re: 2 Kitchens sharing an appliance circuit

If the wet dar is in the dinning room 210.52(C)

indicates that these are small appliance and require counter top spacing rules.

tom
 
Re: 2 Kitchens sharing an appliance circuit

I'll run a 12/3 to my refrigerator outlet on all my wetbars and branch from there to any countertop plugs I need. If a dishwasher or wine cooler or ice maker is present, I'll add additional circuits to supply these. You don't need two countertop circuits because it is not a kitchen but you do need to make certain that you have a receptacle within 12 feet of another one on the outside wall of the bar if you have a peninsula bar attached to the wall. This would be considered "wall space" and the spacing rule would apply. If it was an island wet bar, I don't believe a receptacle would be needed on the outside as the island would not separate "rooms" as an island might separate a kitchen from a dining room.
 
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