2 phase systems

[peter]

Since -- or whereas -- 2 phase systems are virtually extinct and archaic, I suggest that all references to said two phase systems be expunged from future editions of the NEC.
Doing so will eliminate a certain amount of excess verbage and confusion.
Either a separate section of perhaps Chapter 9 could contain the pertinent rules or -- even better -- a section would be inserted as follows:
Section XXX.999. Two phase systems . The rules pertaining to two phase systems in the 2005 edition of this Code shall remain in effect.

~Peter

 

[hurk27]

Re: 2 phase systems

Peter
Believe it or not it is still widely used for draw bridges. I was once told that the cost of rewiring the big motors would cost to much to change them. We had one in Michigan city,In. that was there for many years. And if it wasn't for the river boat casino it would be still there. (they built a new fixed bridge.

 

[charlie]

Re: 2 phase systems

If you know about it, you can basically ignore it in the same manner as "smart house" wiring. As long as someone is using the information, it can't be removed. We intended to remove NM-S cable and Article 780 but found that they were both being used. The same applies to two phase systems. I would think the Code would get a lot thicker and more cumbersome if we tried to segregate the two phase requirements.

If I had a two phase system, I would hate to think that I would have to carry a copy of the 2005 NEC until the system was out of use.

 

[peter]

Re: 2 phase systems

Charlie and Wayne,
You could always leave your old copy of the 2005 NEC at the site of the two phase system.
Since the Code is mainly used for new systems and two phase systems are no longer being installed new, there is no reason to include references to two phase systems in the Code anymore. The old installations can be left as they are. I am not proposing abolishing them. I am only interested in eliminating excess verbage and confusion and perhaps saving half a tree and a pint of ink.
~Peter

 

[charlie]

Re: 2 phase systems

Peter, where would you leave you copy of the 2002 NEC? Just how many copies do you have to spread around? Do you have a clue how to do this? I don't think we are wasting that much ink or paper to leave it alone until we have eliminated the system.

 

[peter]

Re: 2 phase systems

OK. If you have a CD version of the Code -- or if you could get past editions of it on line -- this shouldn't be a problem.
If your drawbridge motor needs to be replaced, just replace it the way it was originally installed. NFPA should admit that some things are obsolete. I have a copy of the American Electrician's Handbook and it is full of junk like how to make a Wesrern Union splice which is interesting from an historical perspective but not very practical to the modern day electrician. It needs a good editing. So does the Code.
~Peter

 

[hurk27]

Re: 2 phase systems

how to make a Wesrern Union splice

Make a great pulling splice to pull new wire in.

 

[al hildenbrand]

Re: 2 phase systems

So. . .let's see. An analogy. After a vehicle gets to be, say, 15 years old, and its one of those old dead technology vehicles that, say, is carbureted, then we should send all the information about carburetors to the last known locations for the vehicles? Or, maybe, send the info to the repair shops, but wait, some will go out of business and others will be new. . .how do they get carburetor info? I think the best idea is to keep the info available, period.

Returning to the electrical world. . .

The western union splice is actually an interesting example. The sections for open wiring and exposed and concealed knob & tube still benefit from the correct application of that splice. I don't do it often, but, on occasion, that is the most elegant and simple procedure needed for the work at hand.

I'll bet knob & tube isn't phased out even by the end of this century.

 

[peter]

Re: 2 phase systems

Al,
Sorry to pick on the Western Union splice. A better choice would have been something like Division One Section 162. The advantages of the telephone receiver over the magneto. [page 1.71]

As for the automobile analogy, perhaps it would be better to compare two phase systems to 100 year old technology rather than 15. More like how to repair a Model T Ford. If you have one, it is a collectors item and you can get information on it.
Just treat these obsolete systems as being grandfathered. Do you carry around every edition of the Code so you can look up what the rules were when the system was originally installed?
~Peter

 

[electricman2]

Re: 2 phase systems

OK, I confess. Haven't a clue what a Western Union splice is. Anyone care to explain it or show a diagram?

 

[bphgravity]

Re: 2 phase systems

 

[hurk27]

Re: 2 phase systems

 

[hurk27]

Re: 2 phase systems

Whoops
you beet me LOL

 

[electricman2]

Re: 2 phase systems

Hey! I have used that many times. Just didn't know it had a name.
Thanks