2 phases of 208/120 connected to a 240 panel?

[ryan89]

I have a commercial project which includes a bowling alley with 208/120 service. The bowling alley electrical requirements state the 208V pin setters and some other 208V control power need to be on the same phase. On a 3 phase panel, this would mean pin setter 'A' would be on circuit 1/3, a space on 5, and controls 'A' on 7/9. Obviously this will create a lot of spaces in the panel and I tried my best to balance things around having some lanes across A/B, some across B/C, and some across C/A.

Stamping PE wants me to look into doing this on a 240V panel since it would be easier to install and would not have as much wasted space. To me, we would be pulling only 2 phases of the 208V service, possibly unbalancing the load upstream, and also not coordinating with the nameplate on the panel. Is there anything code wise preventing me from doing this? (Designed under NEC 2008, construction began under NEC 2011)

Thanks,
Ryan

 

[infinity]

I have a commercial project which includes a bowling alley with 208/120 service. The bowling alley electrical requirements state the 208V pin setters and some other 208V control power need to be on the same phase. On a 3 phase panel, this would mean pin setter 'A' would be on circuit 1/3, a space on 5, and controls 'A' on 7/9. Obviously this will create a lot of spaces in the panel and I tried my best to balance things around having some lanes across A/B, some across B/C, and some across C/A.

Stamping PE wants me to look into doing this on a 240V panel since it would be easier to install and would not have as much wasted space. To me, we would be pulling only 2 phases of the 208V service, possibly unbalancing the load upstream, and also not coordinating with the nameplate on the panel. Is there anything code wise preventing me from doing this? (Designed under NEC 2008, construction began under NEC 2011)

Thanks,
Ryan

Can you explain why you wouldn't use the C phase or circuit 5?

 

[ryan89]

Can you explain why you wouldn't use the C phase or circuit 5?

All of the circuits are 208V and the manufacturer says pin setters and controls must be on the same phase. So the pin setters for one lane grouping would be on space 1/3 and to get the controls on the same phase they would need to be on space 7/9. I can put other unrelated loads on space #5 if I wanted to.

 

[jim dungar]

A 120/240V 1PH 3W panel is listed at its maximum voltages (L-G and L-L), so there is no reason for you not to use it on 120/208 1PH 3W.

 

[hmspe]

All of the circuits are 208V and the manufacturer says pin setters and controls must be on the same phase. So the pin setters for one lane grouping would be on space 1/3 and to get the controls on the same phase they would need to be on space 7/9. I can put other unrelated loads on space #5 if I wanted to.

Why not pin setter on 1/3 and associated controls 0n 2/4? Next set on 5/7 and 6/8, etc.

 

[Smart $]

Why not pin setter on 1/3 and associated controls 0n 2/4? Next set on 5/7 and 6/8, etc.

That was my thought too on reading the OP and prior posts. :happyyes:

Then there's the question, why not put control and setter on the same breaker. Seems strange to me that'd you'd have control power for a piece of equipment on a separate breaker.

 

[infinity]

Why not pin setter on 1/3 and associated controls 0n 2/4? Next set on 5/7 and 6/8, etc.

That was my thought too on reading the OP and prior posts. :happyyes:

I was also thinking the same thing.

 

[ryan89]

I was also thinking the same thing.

I tried to simplify it for the purpose of this post. There is actuallya group of loads for every four pin setters, (1) 208V Control serving (4) 208V Pin Setters. They all need to be on the same phase. When you have 26 lanes or so it makes for an interesting game of Tetris with the panelboard. PE just wants to simplify the installation with a 240V panel so you can stick the breakers anywhere and everything will be on the same phase. I'm just concerned if this would be a code violation since the nameplate with the designed voltage and current won't match the actual voltage on the inside. Truthfully, I think I'm more concerned with an unbalanced load this large if we stuck it on a single phase panel.

 

[Smart $]

... Truthfully, I think I'm more concerned with an unbalanced load this large if we stuck it on a single phase panel.

Use three 1? panels, rotating the phases AB, BC, CA to each.

Another thought was split bus panel, but I'm only aware of two-section split bus panelboards. Perhaps look around to see if three-section is made, or can be made.