2 pole breaker - split wired duplex

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deb4523

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I'm sure this has been discussed somewhere on this forum, but I can't seem to find any previous threads.

I would like to use a 2 pole 20A breaker for a split wired duplex receptacle - one phase to one outlet, one phase to the other outlet & share the neutral and ground. Essentially, I need two separate 20A outlets, but would like to minimize expenditures, because I need to do this many times for head bolt heater outlets in parking lots.

Is there any code against doing this? I don't think it qualifies as paralleling...

Also, would I be able to have a 15A load on each of the outlets simultaneously, or would that trip the breaker? I'm not sure because each of the loads would be on a different phase, but it is still one breaker. :?

As always, thanks in advance for your expertise!
 
Another question: can this be done with GFCI outlets (they will be installed outdoors in weatherproof enclosures) or should it be done with GFCI breakers?
 
A common-trip breaker is required.

Use a 20a 2-pole GFCI breaker.

A 15a load on each circuit will not trip the breaker.
 
Suggestions:

1. Don't forget to break the tabs between the terminals, but only on the hot side of the receptacles.

2. Use a flat-blade screwdriver to increase the distance between the terminal metal parts, just to be safe.
 
deb4523 said:
I'm sure this has been discussed somewhere on this forum, but I can't seem to find any previous threads.

I would like to use a 2 pole 20A breaker for a split wired duplex receptacle - one phase to one outlet, one phase to the other outlet & share the neutral and ground. Essentially, I need two separate 20A outlets, but would like to minimize expenditures, because I need to do this many times for head bolt heater outlets in parking lots.

Is there any code against doing this? I don't think it qualifies as paralleling...

Also, would I be able to have a 15A load on each of the outlets simultaneously, or would that trip the breaker? I'm not sure because each of the loads would be on a different phase, but it is still one breaker. :?

As always, thanks in advance for your expertise!
Click to expand...
That is not "paralleling" it is a multiwire branch circuit.

GFCI receptacle can't be "split wired" so you would need to use 2 pole GFCI breaker or two GFCI receptacles on each circuit.
 
kwired said:
............. or two GFCI receptacles on each circuit.
Click to expand...


Downstream from which, you will need to maintain separate neutrals.

This will not work:

2cirgfirecepMWBC.jpg


But this will:

2cirgfirecep.jpg



Or this:

2cirgfibrker.jpg
 
480sparky said:
A common-trip breaker is required.

Use a 20a 2-pole GFCI breaker.

A 15a load on each circuit will not trip the breaker.
Click to expand...

I thought the breaker on a MWBC needed to be only common "switch" vs common "trip". Meaning a trip does not have to disconnect both sides but a manual switch does? Seems silly to do this though. Just use a common trip anyway
 
deb4523 said:
I'm sure this has been discussed somewhere on this forum, but I can't seem to find any previous threads.

I would like to use a 2 pole 20A breaker for a split wired duplex receptacle - one phase to one outlet, one phase to the other outlet & share the neutral and ground. Essentially, I need two separate 20A outlets, but would like to minimize expenditures, because I need to do this many times for head bolt heater outlets in parking lots.

Is there any code against doing this? I don't think it qualifies as paralleling...

Also, would I be able to have a 15A load on each of the outlets simultaneously, or would that trip the breaker? I'm not sure because each of the loads would be on a different phase, but it is still one breaker. :?

As always, thanks in advance for your expertise!
Click to expand...

check your specifications the last review i did on a parking lot was for a school buss line and they did want individual protection for each outlet so they did not trip more than one heater in a fault condition
 
Andy Delle said:
I thought the breaker on a MWBC needed to be only common "switch" vs common "trip". Meaning a trip does not have to disconnect both sides but a manual switch does? Seems silly to do this though. Just use a common trip anyway
Click to expand...
MWBC doesn't require common trip, just common switch. If you have GFCI or AFCI with GPF component, you won't find any for multi pole applications that don't also have common trip because of how GFP/GFCI feature functions.
 
HBH Sept 12.jpg
So this should work, right?
Or do I need to connect the neutrals for each receptacle separately to the neutral terminal blocks?
<sorry - the colors are dim>
 
deb4523 said:
I'm sure this has been discussed somewhere on this forum, but I can't seem to find any previous threads.

I would like to use a 2 pole 20A breaker for a split wired duplex receptacle - one phase to one outlet, one phase to the other outlet & share the neutral and ground. Essentially, I need two separate 20A outlets, but would like to minimize expenditures
Click to expand...
It may be cheaper to use 2 receptacles

because you can't split GFCI receptacle into 2 circuits like you can a std duplex receptacle

And a 2-pole GFCI breaker may cost more than the 2 GFCI receptacles

And likely to have less nusciance tripping
 
readydave8 said:
It may be cheaper to use 2 receptacles

because you can't split GFCI receptacle into 2 circuits like you can a std duplex receptacle

And a 2-pole GFCI breaker may cost more than the 2 GFCI receptacles

And likely to have less nusciance tripping
Click to expand...

I just want to make sure I understand what you are saying - Using 4 GFCI duplex receptacles and 4 regular breakers per pole could reduce expenses? I could look into that, but I'm not sure that would be the case with the additional labor (very expensive here) and weather proof enclosures, etc., for the receptacles.

Why would it reduce the nusciance tripping? That would be something I could definitely get behind.
 
deb4523 said:
View attachment 21162
So this should work, right?
Or do I need to connect the neutrals for each receptacle separately to the neutral terminal blocks?
<sorry - the colors are dim>
Click to expand...

Looks OK if you use 2 pole CB's or handle ties and a separate neutral from each GFCI breaker to the receptalce. Where is the OCPD for the heater?
 
infinity said:
Looks OK if you use 2 pole CB's or handle ties and a separate neutral from each GFCI breaker to the receptalce. Where is the OCPD for the heater?
Click to expand...

Good catch on the OCPD for the heater! I'll add that in. And yes, I should also redraw to show the neutrals to the breakers. I wasn't sure if I could tie them together or not. Thanks! Also should probably show grounding....

After talking it over with the building personnel a few weeks ago, we've decided to have each receptacle on its own breaker. That way if one receptacle trips a breaker, two receptacles aren't down. Is there some reason I still need to use 2 pole breakers?
 
deb4523 said:
Good catch on the OCPD for the heater! I'll add that in. And yes, I should also redraw to show the neutrals to the breakers. I wasn't sure if I could tie them together or not. Thanks! Also should probably show grounding....

After talking it over with the building personnel a few weeks ago, we've decided to have each receptacle on its own breaker. That way if one receptacle trips a breaker, two receptacles aren't down. Is there some reason I still need to use 2 pole breakers?
Click to expand...

No, if each duplex receptacle is on it's own circuit then a multipole CB is not needed. Each receptacle will have a separate neutral directly from the CB.
 
deb4523 said:
Good catch on the OCPD for the heater! I'll add that in. And yes, I should also redraw to show the neutrals to the breakers. I wasn't sure if I could tie them together or not. Thanks! Also should probably show grounding....

After talking it over with the building personnel a few weeks ago, we've decided to have each receptacle on its own breaker. That way if one receptacle trips a breaker, two receptacles aren't down. Is there some reason I still need to use 2 pole breakers?
Click to expand...
Only if you have a common neutral shared by more than one overcurrent device. Run separate neutral to each receptacle and you no longer have any MWBC's.
 
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