2 pole gfi

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Phildj

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Darby Mt
Hey,
I'm new to the forum & can't figure out how to post a question so I will ask you,

I have a 2 pole 50 GFI for a spa, it trips w no load connected. It's fed from a sub panel that may have 3 wires (#2 tri plex) & no ground going all the way back to the main service, just a ground rod at the panel. Will this cause the gfi to trip? There is no way to add a ground all the way back to the original service now???



thanks
Phil
 
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Phildj

Member
Location
Darby Mt
macmikeman said:
Probably has a defect in the test button circuit having failed to take itself out of ''test'' I would try another gfi breaker and see if that clears things up.
Click to expand...

I did, same result, netual was bonded in sub panel so I split them & same results w 2 breakers. Like I said, I removed the entire gfi disconnect w the tub. It was working fine.

to clarify, the neutral was bonded in the house panel. The main disco for the house is at the meter 100' away in the front yard
 
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Phildj

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Location
Darby Mt
There is the house sub inside 50' away & the 2pole gfi at the tub. Everything works on the tub w/o the gfi & worked w the same gfi 2days ago at a different house.
it has to be a ground issue to trip w nothing connected to the gfi?
 
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macmikeman

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Excessive radio waves can trip a gfi but I kinda bet that is not going to be it. What are the voltage reading on the tub's line side lugs?
Line to line, line to neutral, line to equipment ground?
 
ActionDave

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Phildj said:
Hey,
I'm new to the forum & can't figure out how to post a question so I will ask you,

I have a 2 pole 50 GFI for a spa, it trips w no load connected. It's fed from a sub panel that may have 3 wires (#2 tri plex) & no ground going all the way back to the main service, just a ground rod at the panel. Will this cause the gfi to trip? There is no way to add a ground all the way back to the original service now???



thanks
Phil
Click to expand...

augie47 said:
Are there no wires connected to the breaker whatsoever ?
Click to expand...

Phildj said:
Nope & I just moved it from a working house
Click to expand...

Phildj said:
There is the house sub inside 50' away & the 2pole gfi at the tub. Everything works on the tub w/o the gfi & worked w the same gfi 2days ago at a different house.
it has to be a ground issue to trip w nothing connected to the gfi?
Click to expand...
I'm confused.....Does the GFCI breaker trip with no wires connected to it or not?
 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

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mjf said:
I'm curious, how does one possibly terminate at a sub panel fed with triplex?
Click to expand...

If this is a detached structure then this was compliant. The neutral was bonded to the panel and a rod was driven.

To the op -- this should not trip the gfci however if you don't connect the line side neutral of the gfci then the dp breaker will trip. The line side neutral needs to be connected regardless of whether or not there is a neutral present at the tub.
 
augie47

augie47

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Dennis Alwon said:
If this is a detached structure then this was compliant. The neutral was bonded to the panel and a rod was driven.

To the op -- this should not trip the gfci however if you don't connect the line side neutral of the gfci then the dp breaker will trip. The line side neutral needs to be connected regardless of whether or not there is a neutral present at the tub.
Click to expand...

assuming Dennis is correct ( I never encountered a GFCI with the line side neutral not connected), have you checked to assure your neutral/ground at your GFCI panel has a valid return path and someone did not just connect it to a ground rod or un-bonded ground bar , etc.
 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

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augie47 said:
assuming Dennis is correct ( I never encountered a GFCI with the line side neutral not connected), have you checked to assure your neutral/ground at your GFCI panel has a valid return path and someone did not just connect it to a ground rod or un-bonded ground bar , etc.
Click to expand...


What do you mean-assuming Dennis is correct--- I may not always be right but I'll never be wrong..:p

Gus there have been many threads here and at electricians talk where the electricians did not hook up the line side neutral of the breaker when they did not have a load side neutral. When they do that the gfci always tripped.
 
augie47

augie47

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Dennis Alwon said:
What do you mean-assuming Dennis is correct--- I may not always be right but I'll never be wrong..:p

Gus there have been many threads here and at electricians talk where the electricians did not hook up the line side neutral of the breaker when they did not have a load side neutral. When they do that the gfci always tripped.
Click to expand...

:D when I wrote that, the little voice said "get ready" akin to blasphemy I realinze
blame it on old age.. I thought I had experienced a different result..
i posted a "sticky" on my monitor... "Never Doubt Mr. Alwon" :D
 
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GoldDigger

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augie47 said:
assuming Dennis is correct ( I never encountered a GFCI with the line side neutral not connected), have you checked to assure your neutral/ground at your GFCI panel has a valid return path and someone did not just connect it to a ground rod or un-bonded ground bar , etc.
Click to expand...

It should be possible to make a two pole 240V GFCI that does not require a neutral for power, and is intended only for use on a two wire 240 circuit, but that does not mean that any manufacturer would choose to make one.
In earlier threads the possibility was raised of synthesizing a neutral using the center tap of a 240V winding. But although it would operate correctly it would not be Code conforming.

A European style pure 240V breaker with GF trip (RCD) would probably work, but it may also expect one of the lines to be at ground potential.

The fact that the NEC requires GFCI (as opposed to GFP) only for up to 240V, makes it reasonable for manufacturers to concentrate on 120/240 applications only.
 
Little Bill

Little Bill

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Phildj said:
Hey,
I'm new to the forum & can't figure out how to post a question so I will ask you,

I have a 2 pole 50 GFI for a spa, it trips w no load connected. It's fed from a sub panel that may have 3 wires (#2 tri plex) & no ground going all the way back to the main service, just a ground rod at the panel. Will this cause the gfi to trip? There is no way to add a ground all the way back to the original service now???



thanks
Phil
Click to expand...

Welcome to the forum!

Now.....
1.) Why would you even try the breaker with no load connected?

2.) Nothing upstream of the breaker will cause it to trip.

3.) Try connecting the "pigtail" up to the neutral bar and see if it holds with no load.

Don't know if I read one of your other posts right but thought you said you tried another breaker. If you did, I would conclude you didn't have the "pigtail" connected on it either. Chances are slim to none that you had two breakers in a row bad.

Whether the subpanel was bonded or not wouldn't have any effect on the GFCI. It only monitors current leaving/returning from/to it.
Although the load may not need a neutral, the electronics inside the GFCI need a neutral for both the circuit board and the test button.
 
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