2 pole relay with 3 phase compressor

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BlakeLacy

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Is there any code reason I cant use 2 pole solid state relay or contactor to actuate a 3 phase compressor? I have seen this done for years in the HVAC industry but I have an inspector saying I cannot do this. The reason I want to do this is because I am using solid state relays which are available in 2 pole off the shelf and at a reasonable cost. Space constraints are also another reason. The HVAC unit has a 3 pole disconnect for service..
 
If it is a motor circuit, take a look at 430.84.
430.84 Need Not Open All Conductors. The controller shall not be required to open all conductors to the motor.

Exception: Where the controller serves also as a disconnecting means, it shall open all ungrounded conductors to the motor as provided in 430.111.
 
Implicit in the original question is that the motor takes a delta rather than a wye supply. Otherwise you would have to interrupt three wires to turn the motor off.
 
Implicit in the original question is that the motor takes a delta rather than a wye supply. Otherwise you would have to interrupt three wires to turn the motor off.
I have only seen one wye connected motor that had a neutral run to the motor. I don't think that is very common.
 
What IS mandated is that if there is an overload relay, you are required to have OL sensing in all 3 phases, not just two. It used to be allowed to only sense two phases out of three, that's why you still find legacy starters that only have two heaters, but that changed in the code in the 1970s.

If your motor has built-in thermal protection, then you don't have to worry about the OL protection.

But...
2 pole SSRs for 3 phase motors is a really bad idea. In an SSR, if the SCR inside fails, it shorts, meaning it becomes a conductor. If you have 3 pairs of back-to-back SCRs, as is the case with good soft starters, if one SCR fails, no problem because when you turn off the other 5, there is no path for current flow because it is blocked by the other SCRs. The only dangerous condition is if 2 SCRs short in opposite phases, and that is very rare because the voltage or current events that can take out one SCR are usually only on one phase at a time. But with only two pairs of SCRs, one phase is ALWAYS hot, so if just ONE SCR shorts, you cannot turn off the motor unless someone notices and opens the disconnect. When the remaining good SCR pair turns off, the motor is then single phasing and even if you have an OL relay that can sense the single phasing condition, there is nothing it can do about it because you cannot stop the current flow. The result is a burned motor.

By the way, the same is true in your HVAC systems with 2 pole contactors. If one pole welds, the motor fries. It's a really bad idea from the end user standpoint, but in the HVAC world, they go for cheapest way out that isn't technically illegal.
 
What IS mandated is that if there is an overload relay, you are required to have OL sensing in all 3 phases, not just two. It used to be allowed to only sense two phases out of three, that's why you still find legacy starters that only have two heaters, but that changed in the code in the 1970s.

If your motor has built-in thermal protection, then you don't have to worry about the OL protection.

But...
2 pole SSRs for 3 phase motors is a really bad idea. In an SSR, if the SCR inside fails, it shorts, meaning it becomes a conductor. If you have 3 pairs of back-to-back SCRs, as is the case with good soft starters, if one SCR fails, no problem because when you turn off the other 5, there is no path for current flow because it is blocked by the other SCRs. The only dangerous condition is if 2 SCRs short in opposite phases, and that is very rare because the voltage or current events that can take out one SCR are usually only on one phase at a time. But with only two pairs of SCRs, one phase is ALWAYS hot, so if just ONE SCR shorts, you cannot turn off the motor unless someone notices and opens the disconnect. When the remaining good SCR pair turns off, the motor is then single phasing and even if you have an OL relay that can sense the single phasing condition, there is nothing it can do about it because you cannot stop the current flow. The result is a burned motor.

By the way, the same is true in your HVAC systems with 2 pole contactors. If one pole welds, the motor fries. It's a really bad idea from the end user standpoint, but in the HVAC world, they go for cheapest way out that isn't technically illegal.


On all of the soft starts we use, (which uses the same Triac or SCR technology as a SSR), they have a sticker supplied with each controller stating something like: "Caution: Motor leads may be energized when motor is not running". So even with a 3 pole SSR, I'd be less than enthusiastic about using it as a starter. All of our applications have an "isolation contactor" in series with the soft start to insure no motor voltage when the motor is stopped. So...I guess I'm agreeing with Jraef...SSR is a bad idea. Even the manufacturers require an open contactor.
 
On all of the soft starts we use, (which uses the same Triac or SCR technology as a SSR), they have a sticker supplied with each controller stating something like: "Caution: Motor leads may be energized when motor is not running". So even with a 3 pole SSR, I'd be less than enthusiastic about using it as a starter. All of our applications have an "isolation contactor" in series with the soft start to insure no motor voltage when the motor is stopped. So...I guess I'm agreeing with Jraef...SSR is a bad idea. Even the manufacturers require an open contactor.
The reason why soft starters "show" line voltage on the output even when off is because they use an RC "snubber" circuit on each set of SCRs. It's a resistor and capacitor in series, which snubs any line transients that might make the SCRs "self commutate", meaning turn themselves on when there is a rapid change in voltage on one side, like a line transient. So when you put a meter on T1 and T2 or any pair of output terminals, your meter will read the leakage through that snubber circuit. But it's only good for a couple of micro-amps, in fact an analog meter burden will make it appear to be zero. It's only the low impedance digital multimeters that can read it. The SCRs themselves can have a tiny amount of leakage as well. But it still freaks people out, hence the warnings.
 
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