2 romex cables 12/2, why they do this?

[brother]

Looking at a remodeled project that a previous installer had just ran two 12/2 romex cables to a 2 gang switch box that go to a ceiling fan with light. Not sure why they did it this way, and I think they way they did it may be a code violation. I could see if it was a single 12/2, for a 1 switch (using the black for hot and taped white for the switch leg) or even a 12/3, (have two switch legs, one for the fan, one for the light with common hot). But this would mean no neutral at the 2 gang switch box location for the occupancy switches if they use them.

Also, if they used one 12/2 for the hot and neutral, the other cable for the switch legs, this would not have the counter emf since both would be sending out hots for the fan and light.
Am I missing something here?

 

[romex jockey]

Am I missing something here?

well that 'tapped white' might be an issue , but rx run w/out noodle was ok last time i checked, pipe or MC might be a different consideration brother

~RJ~

 

[brother]

well that 'tapped white' might be an issue , but rx run w/out noodle was ok last time i checked, pipe or MC might be a different consideration brother

~RJ~

How is the taped white (with black tape) be an issue?. I think I misspelled taped. lol Its just to identify the white conductor in romex as a hot.

Also, wouldn't the other cable, (romex) just used as a switch legs be an issue since all conductors of the same circuit are technically not in the same cable?

 

[Buck Parrish]

"Why did they do this"? Maybe they didn't have a roll of 12/3 on the truck.

When you work an hour one way from the nearest supply or box store. If you happen to need something. It's a minimum two hours to go get it.

 

[Inspector@ToP]

Perhaps they used one 12/2 for the hot and neutral for the light and the other 12/2 cable for the hot and neutral for the fan.

 

[infinity]

If I remember correctly (I don't have the NEC in front of me) with a plastic box and the two cables run in proximity to each other this is acceptacle.

 

[jimport]

There was an exception with non-metallic cables that allowed separate cables.

 

[infinity]

There was an exception with non-metallic cables that allowed separate cables.

Thanks Jim, do you remember that code section?

 

[romex jockey]

How is the taped white (with black tape) be an issue?.

only since 210.5 asked for 'permanent' , and we've all run around with 'permanent markers' since ...


~RJ~

 

[wwhitney]

300.3(B)(3).

Wayne

 

[infinity]

only since 210.5 asked for 'permanent' , and we've all run around with 'permanent markers' since ...


~RJ~

Where is the word permanent for identifying AC conductors in 210.5?

 

[LarryFine]

I don't see the issue, but I also don't see why four conductors are needed, unless power is fed at the fan box.

If it is, then the fourth conductor, the uncolored white, can be used as the neutral at the switches.

If power is fed at the switches, the fan box can be fed by a hot, a neutral, and two switch legs.

 

[Seven-Delta-FortyOne]

Different way to do the same thing. Two separate cables, or one 12-3.

Unless power feeds the outlet first, then the switch box, then you’d need 12-4. That’s a special order in my area.

 

[romex jockey]

Where is the word permanent for identifying AC conductors in 210.5?

It actually does not infinity , local ahj's have manufactured their own take on this

~RJ~

 

[infinity]

It actually does not infinity , local ahj's have manufactured their own take on this

~RJ~

I hate when they do that.
FWIW I thought that it said permanent too until I looked it up. Tape is good enough for me.

 

[Little Bill]

It works well to take a "fat" nosed Sharpie and cut a "V" notch in the tip. You can swipe that down the wire and cover it with one pass most of the time.

 

[jimport]

Thanks Jim, do you remember that code section?

I will look.

 

[romex jockey]

I hate when they do that.

Yeah me too Infinity , but from an EC's view it's not a high $$ item to 'keep 'em happy' ...

~RJ~

 

[winnie]

Also, if they used one 12/2 for the hot and neutral, the other cable for the switch legs, this would not have the counter emf since both would be sending out hots for the fan and light.
Am I missing something here?

As others have mentioned, there are exceptions to the 'all conductors in the same cable or raceway' requirements for non-metallic cables.

Basically if you have 2 NM cables side by side, going through the same holes in any metal boxes, then inductive and non-cancelation of field effects are minimal. So you could quite safely use 2x 12/2 NM in place of 1x 12/4 NM.

Jon

 

[kwired]

If I remember correctly (I don't have the NEC in front of me) with a plastic box and the two cables run in proximity to each other this is acceptacle.

I don't have code articles handy, but I have checked before and because it is acceptable do this kind of thing quite often.

Even is acceptable with metal box/enclosure if using a connector rated to handle both cables involved.

Uses more copper than say 12-2-2 (which has one less EGC) but they seem to be proud of the price with 12-2-2.