2 volts in pool, bond wire, grounding rods

S

SunTitan

Member
Location
Monroe, ga
Occupation
Construction Risk Director
I've been about everywhere else with no luck. Around 2 weeks ago my wife called and said that the newly installed in-ground pool was "zapping them". I check voltage and read 1.8-2 volts with the power prod in the water and ground on the deck. Checked by the house under the meter - grounded to the wire on the ground rods and red probe in the dirt, getting 1.8. Checked one neighbor a out 100 yards away, they have 1.8 at their meter on the ground, while the other neighbor shows 4.6. Had two new ground d rods installed today, no change. If the bonding wire is removed from the pool pump, voltage drops to almost nothing in the pool. We've killed every breaker while watching the water voltage - pool sub panel, main panel, and every single breaker in the house - voltage remains. I did install a ceiling fan on the back patio recently - any chance that's the culprit before I take it down to check? Would that affect the neighbors? From what I'm reading as response to others, I need to get EMC involved. We've had a good bit of weather and storms lately and this seems to be a rather sudden thing. Also, on the same day the pool shocked them, my doorbell transformer went out and the garage door went nuts for a few hours. House built Sept of 2023. Help me, smart people.
 
Its not the voltage on the wire that is shocking people, but the difference of potential between different items. Something is not bonded correctly. The purpose of pool bonding is to bring everything to the same potential. You need a professional.
 
Mystic Pools said:
Reach out to any local pool contractors and ask for the electrician they use. These will be the most experienced people.
Not every electrician wants to tackle swimming pools. Find one that does,
I would not use the pool until this is resolved.
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This is the issue. The pool electrician that was used for install claims everything is fine and that a neutral must be backfeeding to the ground. Claims bonding is fine. Another electrician recommended a "shield" around the pool. The most recent electrician says he believes that there is voltage leaking underground and it's an EMC problem. If the bonding is bad, that would mean that the concrete presumably needs to be busted up? Would the shield be a safe alternative to that?
 
petersonra said:
There really are not many electricians that are any good at this kind of thing. They might, or might not, be able to tell you if it was bonded correctly and what it would take to fix the bonding, but finding the source of the voltage is another problem.
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Thank you - I have been getting conflicting answers. Some say it's stray voltage in the ground and a bonding issue. I would think this makes the most sense - the bonding is supposed to protect from stray voltage getting in the water, correct? So even if there is voltage through the ground, the fact that it's getting into the water is a separate problem? The voltage is supposedly feeding back though the ground wire of the house and out into the subpanel of the pool and into the equipment.
 
SunTitan said:
This is the issue. The pool electrician that was used for install claims everything is fine and that a neutral must be backfeeding to the ground. Claims bonding is fine. Another electrician recommended a "shield" around the pool. The most recent electrician says he believes that there is voltage leaking underground and it's an EMC problem. If the bonding is bad, that would mean that the concrete presumably needs to be busted up? Would the shield be a safe alternative to that?
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Of course he does. Shield???

NEC 680 is explicit regarding pool requirements.

Find someone who has experience with pools. Not for the faint hearted.
There should have been an inspection for the pool bonding during construction. Reach out to your building dept. to verify.
It's super important you get someone in ASAP and don't use the pool!

What type of inground pool? Concrete? Vinyl? Fiberglass?
 
Its vinyl lined with concrete steps and tanning ledge. The bottom is Portland and walls are composite. What I'm getting here is to get a competent pool electrician in here asap and that even if there is stray or leaking underground volatge, or a neutral backfeed from tbe utility, the bond should be protecting is from that? The city inspector did come out and perform a bond inspection and passed it. Also adding that this pool. Build was completed only 2 month ago.
 
SunTitan said:
Its vinyl lined with concrete steps and tanning ledge. The bottom is Portland and walls are composite. What I'm getting here is to get a competent pool electrician in here asap and that even if there is stray or leaking underground volatge, or a neutral backfeed from tbe utility, the bond should be protecting is from that? The city inspector did come out and perform a bond inspection and passed it. Also adding that this pool. Build was completed only 2 month ago.
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Is this recent development or has it been that way since day one?

I don't know what the heck 'a neutral backfeed from the utility' is and I doubt that EC does either. I think you have eliminated at least 3 ECs. Keep looking. I agree with don't use the pool.
 
petersonra said:
There really are not many electricians that are any good at this kind of thing. They might, or might not, be able to tell you if it was bonded correctly and what it would take to fix the bonding, but finding the source of the voltage is another problem.
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What's being described actually sounds more like a POCO issue.
As far as capable EC's, it make take some searching to find one that is. Pools are not for DIYers
 
This is recent from what we can tell. We have had a lot of heavy storms over the past month and the kids just started using the pool last month with no issues despite the water being cold because kids are psycho. They used it about 7 days ago and realized it was zapping them - that same day the door ell transformer blew and the garage went nuts, opening too far Into the motor and refusing to close all the way.

I've replaced the transformer and the garage is fine now. I've also been told to ride and see if there are any large branches leaning or across power lines. As far as a neutral backfeed, Its been explained that if the neutral and ground are crossed or touched it could be sending power to the ground.
 
roger said:
What's being described actually sounds more like a POCO issue.
As far as capable EC's, it make take some searching to find one that is. Pools are not for DIYers
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I spoke with them this morning and they claim that they came out and checked everything last week when I called. I. Reality, they came out, blamed it in my home grounding and left. I got 2 new ground rods and new loop installed. Since the neighbor is showing higher voltage on the ground wire, he's now calling to have them come pulled his service from the pole to see if the voltage drops. Im definitely not a DIYer when it come to anything electric - i know my limits.
 
All 4 homes here are new builds as of 2023. The neighbornshowing the highest voltage though the ground wire is on an existing transformer while myself and the neighbor opposite are on a new one that was added prior to build.
 
Are you on city water or do you (or anyone nearby) have wells?

SunTitan said:
If the bonding wire is removed from the pool pump, voltage drops to almost nothing in the pool.
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What exactly do you mean by this? Did you disconnect the earth ground of the supply circuit to the pump, or the wire from the pump to the pool bonding grid?

SunTitan said:
We've killed every breaker while watching the water voltage - pool sub panel, main panel, and every single breaker in the house - voltage remains.
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This strongly indicates the problem originates from off your property.

This is not a DIY forum. We won't help you do DIY electrical work. But in those limits we will help you better understand the issue so that you can get an electrician to fix things.
 
winnie said:
Are you on city water or do you (or anyone nearby) have wells?



What exactly do you mean by this? Did you disconnect the earth ground of the supply circuit to the pump, or the wire from the pump to the pool bonding grid?


This strongly indicates the problem originates from off your property.

This is not a DIY forum. We won't help you do DIY electrical work. But in those limits we will help you better understand the issue so that you can get an electrician to fix things.
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We're all on city water, no we'll that I'm aware of. The EC used by the pool contractor pulled the bonding grid wire from the pump, essentially just leaving it on the ground not connected to anything. This cleared the voltage difference in the pool and this EC even said it was fine to swim and use the pool but reconnect the bond wire to the pump when done. I have not taken his advice.

I will never DIY electrical work above putting in a ceiling fan - I know my limits. Im hoping to learn as much as possible and what scenarios may exist as I navigate this with the POCO. So far, they've been lazy and not helpful. On the plus side, my brother is a licensed industrial electrician for a major corporation. Does do pools, but most certainly has mentioned NEV and stray voltage and that he could identify the problem. He will be here next weekend and will look into it, depending how the POCO visit goes today.

I really appreciate all the knowledge from you all.
 
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