20 Amp Circuits

[mbrooke]

Yeah, they only install Federal Pacific panels.

Ahem, *Federal Pioneer

 

[480sparky]

Ahem, *Federal Pioneer

Ahem... Fire Producing

 

[mbrooke]

Ahem... Fire Producing

Only when the maple syrup runs. The snows keeps the panel and wire cool.

 

[LarryFine]

So how does Canada not encounter tripping?

They use metric amps.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

It is true that Canada doesn't require 20 amps in a bathroom and that theoretically you can do an entire home with 15 amp circuits however it is seldom done that way. If you use 15 amps in a kitchen then you have to split wire the device and have 2- circuits to the receptacle.

A comment from a Canadian

We have no requirement for 20 amp in bathrooms. I think you do. 20A is common in kitchens but we have the option for 15A splits (3 wire with the bridge removed in the duplex receptacle). Splits aren’t very common because GFCI protection requires a breaker. Theoretically, we could wire a house with no 20A receptacles but it’s never done.

 

[mbrooke]

It is true that Canada doesn't require 20 amps in a bathroom and that theoretically you can do an entire home with 15 amp circuits however it is seldom done that way. If you use 15 amps in a kitchen then you have to split wire the device and have 2- circuits to the receptacle.

A comment from a Canadian

Yup, split wire the kitchen, 15 amp everything else. That was the norm up until 10 years ago.

20 amps is popping up today because of GFCI protection and the CEC trying to hard to harmonize with the NEC.

 

[mbrooke]

They use metric amps.

Would be nice if they used 347 volts in their dwellings

 

[David Castor]

Voltage drop and lamp flicker is also a consideration. #14 AWG and 15 A circuits should go away entirely, IMO. It' not that they don't "work", it's just not that much more expensive to go up to #12 and it wouldn't make any sense to put a 15 A breaker on a #12 circuit. I don't know why Canadian code is different in this aspect. But I have little interest in re-writing the NEC for non-safety-related issues. And if I did, this would be way down on my list.

If we were starting from scratch, we should make 240 V the standard for all branch circuits. That would be a battle worth fighting.

 

[romex jockey]

Some very eye opening parallels , as well as differences exist betwixt CEC & NEC
I wish this forum would have more Canadian sparks, and embrace those differences
I'll wager some rather educational

~RJ~

 

[mbrooke]

Voltage drop and lamp flicker is also a consideration. #14 AWG and 15 A circuits should go away entirely, IMO. It' not that they don't "work", it's just not that much more expensive to go up to #12 and it wouldn't make any sense to put a 15 A breaker on a #12 circuit. I don't know why Canadian code is different in this aspect. But I have little interest in re-writing the NEC for non-safety-related issues. And if I did, this would be way down on my list.

If we were starting from scratch, we should make 240 V the standard for all branch circuits. That would be a battle worth fighting.

Flickr is a design issue in that a seperate circuit can mitigate that. Voltage drop with 20 amps on #12 vs 15 amps on #14 is about the same. If you ever worked with #12 in pancake boxes and high hats you would wish #14 was run.

 

[LarryFine]

I wish this forum would have more Canadian sparks, and embrace those differences
I'll wager some rather educational

I'd like to have their "DC Romex" for circuits w/o neutrals.

 

[LarryFine]

If you ever worked with #12 in pancake boxes and high hats you would wish #14 was run.

Agreed. Residential lighting circuit loads are predictable and easy to design for.

I'm still a 20a receptacle/15a lighting kinda guy.

 

[James L]

I'm still a 20a receptacle/15a lighting kinda guy.

Back in about 1999 I wired a community poolhouse that way, not realizing it was considered a commercial space. Inspector saw the #14 and was gonna fail it, then he saw me and said he thought it looked like my work. Asked me if I had any receptacles on 15 amp circuits, and I told him no. Only the lighting. So he passed it.

For ease of installation, I have always preferred #14 as much as possible, but I'm gravitating more toward using #12 on all receptacles

 

[goldstar]

You don't have any teenage kids, do you?

AND, that should apply to water heaters as well (gas or electric). Make sure you shower before your kids otherwise you won't have any hot water

 

[infinity]

Back in about 1999 I wired a community poolhouse that way, not realizing it was considered a commercial space. Inspector saw the #14 and was gonna fail it, then he saw me and said he thought it looked like my work. Asked me if I had any receptacles on 15 amp circuits, and I told him no. Only the lighting. So he passed it.

For ease of installation, I have always preferred #14 as much as possible, but I'm gravitating more toward using #12 on all receptacles

Why would he fail receptacles on 15 amp circuits?

 

[James L]

Why would he fail receptacles on 15 amp circuits?

it's such a common practice here to wire everything commercial on minimum 20 amp circuits, nobody even thinks twice about it. Even though it's not an NEC requirement, that would be beyond sacrilegious. That would be akin to a mortal sin.

 

[infinity]

it's such a common practice here to wire everything commercial on minimum 20 amp circuits, nobody even thinks twice about it. Even though it's not an NEC requirement, that would be beyond sacrilegious. That would be akin to a mortal sin.

LOL.

 

[Frank Licata]

Why does the code require 20 amp circuits when in Canada 15 amp circuits are the norm for everything?

20a for commercial. 15a and 20a for residential depending on where in the house. Practically speaking, it's usually more economical to go 20a everywhere in the house because of the cost of AFCI/GFCI circuit breakers. That way you can do more with the larger circuit, and have less circuits.

 

[infinity]

20a for commercial. 15a and 20a for residential depending on where in the house. Practically speaking, it's usually more economical to go 20a everywhere in the house because of the cost of AFCI/GFCI circuit breakers. That way you can do more with the larger circuit, and have less circuits.

Do you mean that using 20 amp general branch circuits allows you to add more lights to each circuit therefore using less circuits?

Welcome to the Forum.

 

[Frank Licata]

Do you mean that using 20 amp general branch circuits allows you to add more lights to each circuit therefore using less circuits?

Welcome to the Forum.

Yes, thats what I mean. You can pickup more outlets with a 20a circ than with a 15a circ, which means less circuits and less AFCI circuit breakers. The cost difference between #12 and #14 wire is not as bad as the breaker cost. Personally, the only #14 that I would use in a house is 14-3 for the smoke/co detectors.