200 amp minimum service for residential.

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Greg1707

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Alexandria, VA
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Business owner Electrical contractor
Recently, I have noticed that home owners, regardless the size of their house want a 200 amp service. Where does this idea come from? Is there a TV program or website that recommends 200 amps as the minimum? How does a ordinary home owner, with no knowledge of construction etc. know to specify 200 amps? Why not 500 amps?
 
Probably because 200 amp has been the standard there. Around here it used to be 150 amps but now a 150 amp panel cost more than a 200 amp panel.

I think home owner hear from other people to get a 200 amp service in case one wants to add power. Obviously they don't really know.

I had a guy ask for a 400 amp service for his house and 400 amps for his shop building. He needed less than 200 amps for both but we never install less than 200 amps for a service
 
They want A/C , Hot tub, 40 amp back-feed solar.

it is now 200 amp min for SFR in California within a subdivision of 10 or more Single family residences. based on the 2016 Califoniacated energy code. Made law by the peoples republic of Kalifornia.
 
Load calculation

Load calculation

So, is there any reason to do a load calculation for residential if the answer is always 200 amps?
 
Around here a 200 amp service is still seen as a selling feature when one puts their home on the market. Since everything is natural gas a 200 amp service will be adequate for many new homes so its become the norm.
 
Kansas City Power & Light will hook up a 100a service, however....

They require minimum 200a meter can, and minimum 3" pvc conduit for underground.
 

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In my neighborhood where one in every four household has a Tesla or other electric vehicle parked in a driveway I won't be surprised if within four years there will be two or three Teslas being charged overnight.

That alone would justify 200Amp service.
And yes, new houses now come with 200 Amps.
 
give it away for free

give it away for free

Over my career I have wired many houses and always did a calculation for the service. To install anything larger than the calculated load costs someone money, I did nothing for free. The problem today is electricians just blindly give stuff away for free thinking it is getting them work.

When we just install a 200 amp service where a 125 would work we just give away a service change. When I first got started in the trade all supply houses stocked all panels but over the years electricians just blindly install a 200 everywhere so they don’t stock them anymore. It is called supply and demand.

Think about this for a minute, do we just install a 1200 amp in every commercial building or is there a calculation done for the service? Then why do we just stick a 200 amp in where a 100 amp would work? We excuse it by saying anyone who doesn’t is sloppy when in reality most can’t do a service calculation.

edited for spelling
 
Mike, today's market is different, especially around here. If ir were a small home with no room for expansion or additions of pools or hot tubs than yes a smaller service could be used.

Why do you think we give it away. My customers pay for that 200 amp service whether they need it or not. I often give an option to go from 200 to 400 if the 200 service is maxed out.

Most of my customers will usually call back and want to add additions or pools and hot tubs.

I did a 2000 sq.ft existing house. The owners are friends---they had a 200 amp service but then added a garage with a future apartment, a hot tub, pool, and addition on the house, thinking about a sauna and are redoing the kitchen at some point with double ovens (electric) etc.

The house has a gas furnace and a/c. I m glad I used a 400 amp service cause who knows whats next--car chargers-- 2 maybe

Put 2 chargers at 50 amps each and all those mentioned above and the calculation gets pretty high
 
Dennis Alwon said:
Mike, today's market is different, especially around here. If ir were a small home with no room for expansion or additions of pools or hot tubs than yes a smaller service could be used.

Why do you think we give it away. My customers pay for that 200 amp service whether they need it or not. I often give an option to go from 200 to 400 if the 200 service is maxed out.

Most of my customers will usually call back and want to add additions or pools and hot tubs.

I did a 2000 sq.ft existing house. The owners are friends---they had a 200 amp service but then added a garage with a future apartment, a hot tub, pool, and addition on the house, thinking about a sauna and are redoing the kitchen at some point with double ovens (electric) etc.

The house has a gas furnace and a/c. I m glad I used a 400 amp service cause who knows whats next--car chargers-- 2 maybe

Put 2 chargers at 50 amps each and all those mentioned above and the calculation gets pretty high
Click to expand...

That is my reasoning, that the cost is so minimally more to put in 200 over 100. Maybe $85 premium in materials and a tad more labor?
 
Most architects around here are calling for a 320A service. When my daughter had a 1900 FT2 home built (gas heat, hot water and range), I had him change the drawings to a 200. Putting in a 320 would have been a stupid waste of money.
I did a back of napkin load calc throwing in some extra for a dehumidifier, fridge and dishwasher in the finished basement and a 150 would have been fine, if I Remember correctly.
 
There is no question that most often we install a larger than needed service but most of my customers like the option of having more for future expansion. I cannot remember the last time I did a service on a home that had less than 200 amps. I did townhouses 30+ years ago and there we installed 100 or 125 amp services...No expansion possible
 
Dennis Alwon said:
There is no question that most often we install a larger than needed service but most of my customers like the option of having more for future expansion. I cannot remember the last time I did a service on a home that had less than 200 amps. I did townhouses 30+ years ago and there we installed 100 or 125 amp services...No expansion possible
Click to expand...
Is possible to increase the load though. How likely it is to change to electric heating or instantaneous water heating may vary from one area to another though.
 
171031-1120 EDT

At my son's shop we have a 200 A 3 phase 240 V wild leg delta supply with 300 ft of 0000 copper from the two pole transformers.

The connected load is lights, 6 20 HP CNC mills, 2 20 Hp CNC lathes, a 20 HP wide belt sander, 1 manual lathe, 2 manual mills, and miscellaneous other equipment. You guys would never put that kind of load on that panel. We have never tripped the main, and we don't expect any problem. Not everthing runs at once. I have never checked load current, but some time I should.

.
 
Around here, 200 Amp service has been standard since the late 70s on moderate to large homes. Spured on by the power company's Gold Medallion Home program, starting in the late 50s. All electric, typically baseboard heat back then. Now A/C has become the norm (since the 70s). Around these parts we have to both cool from 100 °F outside temps and heat from 0 °F outside temps. If you do not have gas and have a large home, 400 Amp service is common now!

Frank DuVal
 
One of the last houses I did was a custom built 2800 square foot with gas appliances. Home owner was involved from the foundation up. Had a lot of bells and whistles involved but a 125 amp service. A couple of years ago they installed a large pool with hot tub but guess what. The electrician also got a service change out of the deal. Wonder why, simply because I didn’t give them one for free when I wired the house originally. I did the calculation and installed accordingly with any thought of what if they want to expand. If they want to expand let them spend the money to do so.
 
jwelectric said:
One of the last houses I did was a custom built 2800 square foot with gas appliances. Home owner was involved from the foundation up. Had a lot of bells and whistles involved but a 125 amp service. A couple of years ago they installed a large pool with hot tub but guess what. The electrician also got a service change out of the deal. Wonder why, simply because I didn’t give them one for free when I wired the house originally. I did the calculation and installed accordingly with any thought of what if they want to expand. If they want to expand let them spend the money to do so.
Click to expand...
A neighborly conversation...

Steve: hey, Larry. What is JW Electric doing over at your house?

Larry: oh, he's upgrading our service because the old one can't handle our new pool and hot tub

Steve: whatcha upgrading to?

Larry: 200 amps

Steve: 200 amps ?!?... your house is about the same size as mine, and I've had two hundred amps all along

Larry: yeah, I know. But when we built the house, JW Electric assured us that 125 amps was plenty

Steve: how did that work out for you?

Larry: :rant:
 
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