200 amp Service underground From Pole to Meter

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Doc13067

Doc13067

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Bucks County/Philadelphia, PA USA
Hello all, this is my first post in the forum but I’ve been directed to this site many times in my searches and know you guys know your stuff so thanks in advance for hearing me. I’ve got a job in which I am tasked with running service wires from atop a pole (in Home owner’s back yard) through 2” sch 40 conduit to a meter and in to the 200a main panel and then out through a second underground pipe to a 125a sub panel. I understand I’ll need 3/0 copper or 4/0 aluminum. But do I want thhn or thwn and should the ground be #4 instead of #6?

my plan was to run a 90 at the top of the pole and fish 3 wides through to the meter and then in to the panel, install a ground rod at the pole and at the panel, and then run 4 wires from the main to the sub and obviously bind the main panel but not bond the sub panel. The reason for the ground at the pole is so Peco has the option of grounding the pole when they come out to tie my new Service wires into the triplex.
 
Doc, welcome.

1. You should use a weather-head on the conduit on the pole, not a 90.

2. The 3-0/4-0 would only be needed for 200a conductors, not the 125a.

3. The grounding conductor never need be larger than #6 for rods alone.

4. You need conductors with a W in the insulation type where outdoors.

5. The 125a panel, with #4 cu or #2 al feeder, needs only a #8 to rod.
 
Doc13067 said:
Hello all,.
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im not sure what you intend to do with a 90 on top of the pole.
you need a weather head on your 2 in PVC that you ran from the utility service drop to the meter

most utilities in PA require a meter mounted on a pole to be grounded two rods

it is unclear to me if your 200 amp service disconnect is on the same pole as your utility meter

it sounds like you are saying you go underground from the meter to the 200 amp disconnect
and from the 200 amp disconnect under ground again to a 125 amp panel

Is this a farm service or is this something else?

Edit
see post # 5
 
The pole is in the back yard of a single house (not a farm) and the triplex is coming from a transformer on another pole and supported by this pole in the back yard on its way to the house where it meets the existing riser which runs DOWN the side of the house and into the meter. The homeowner wants the wires to go underground instead of through the air. So I’m tasked with running new Service wires down the pole, under the back yard and UP into the meter base on the wall of the house.

There is no meter on the pole.

I am going to put a ground rod near the new panel like always but I was also considering putting a ground at the pole in case Peco wants to ground the pole when they switch the service from the existing entrance in SEU on the side of the house to the new lines ran through the pipe underground.

I know now I only need #2 cu or 1/0 al for the sub panel but it may wind up cheaper to get a 500’ roll of 3/0 or 4/0 depending on measurements.

In places like California where SEU is never used it is common to see the pipe come up out of the ground and run up the pole and out of a 90 where it ties into the power lines. Remember, the riser is not coming out of the top of the meter base and running up towards the roof, like where you’d normally see a weatherhead.
 

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Doc13067 said:
The pole is in the back yard of a single house (not a farm) and the triplex is coming from a transformer on another pole and supported by this pole in the back yard on
Click to expand...

Have you looked at your utilities guidelines for residential services. I did a quick on line check and from PECO bluebook

4.4.1.3 Underground Service - Residential
The Company will extend an underground service to the defined point of delivery for
residential occupancy premises. The point of delivery will normally be an outdoor
meter socket located on the front wall of the residence or a sidewall within two feet
of the front wall. Only meter sockets listed in Tables 8.01 and 8.16 are acceptable
for outdoor installation. Refer to Figure 8.05 for installation details.

The Company will own and maintain these underground services on private
property to the defined point of delivery as prescribed in the Electric Service Tariff
Rule 7.3, or by special agreement with the Customer. Consult the local PECO
New Business office or (NRCG) for detailed information on underground service
installations.

I think it would be worth your time here first energy would require a min of 3 in PVC a in of 3 ft deep trench 36 in sweeps and a pull string from the pole to the meter.

as far as any grounding at the utility pole the utility usually does that at the pole with the transformer either way they do there own grounding

View the​ Requirements for Service
Blue Book
For information on electric service requirements, refer to the PECO Electric Service Requirements Manual, or the "Blue Book."
 
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David,

i looked around a bit but didn’t yet come across what you just showed me. Thank you very much! So it looks as if Peco will run the lines to the meter and I’ll take it from there. If that’s the case it’ll save the home owner a ton. I’ll have him get in touch with them and go from there but either way moving forward I’ll take your advice. Thanks a million.
 
Doc13067 said:
David,

i looked around a bit but didn’t yet come across what you just showed me. Thank you very much! So it looks as if Peco will run the lines to the meter and I’ll take it from there. If that’s the case it’ll save the home owner a ton. I’ll have him get in touch with them and go from there but either way moving forward I’ll take your advice. Thanks a million.
Click to expand...

actually the utility will charge the customer, going from a drop to a lateral

You need to talk to your utility here the customer has to provide the trench and conduit with a pull string

its seems 2 in conduit maybe the min. in your area also they may allow 24 in of cover call your meter dept' for your area

https://www.peco.com/MyAccount/MyService/Pages/Guidelines.aspx
 
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Doc13067 said:
The pole is in the back yard of a single house (not a farm) and the triplex is coming from a transformer on another pole and supported by this pole in the back yard on its way to the house where it meets the existing riser which runs DOWN the side of the house and into the meter. The homeowner wants the wires to go underground instead of through the air. So I’m tasked with running new Service wires down the pole, under the back yard and UP into the meter base on the wall of the house.

There is no meter on the pole.

I am going to put a ground rod near the new panel like always but I was also considering putting a ground at the pole in case Peco wants to ground the pole when they switch the service from the existing entrance in SEU on the side of the house to the new lines ran through the pipe underground.

I know now I only need #2 cu or 1/0 al for the sub panel but it may wind up cheaper to get a 500’ roll of 3/0 or 4/0 depending on measurements.

In places like California where SEU is never used it is common to see the pipe come up out of the ground and run up the pole and out of a 90 where it ties into the power lines. Remember, the riser is not coming out of the top of the meter base and running up towards the roof, like where you’d normally see a weatherhead.
Click to expand...

Not sure about your area, but, around here, they'd either set a termination box at the base of the pole and have us come from there, or, they'd have us stub up at the bottom of the pole in the back yard with enough conductor left out to reach the top of the pole.

They'd add onto our stub up at the pole and put a weatherhead on it to make the transition from the Underground wiring to the Overhead.

24" coverage above the underground pipe containing the service conductors to the house would be sufficient.

You actually should already have a ground rod driven at the meter location at the house for the existing service that you can attach to when you change that meterbase out to an underground fed type, (That is unless you can blank off the top and come into the bottom of the existing meter) , but, you may need 2 as to not have to worry about the whole resistance to ground thing at the meter location and #6 bare ground for the GEC.

As far as the price of #2cu or 1/0 alum verses 3/0 copper or 4/0 aluminum, I think your going to find that price difference pretty hefty and worth considering not buying the larger size.

Don't go pulling those big honkin conductors that wont fit under the 125 amp lugs anyway once you get there, and, don't drive that ground rod at the bottom of that 2ndary pole in the back yard that they aren't going to use anyway.

All of that unnecessary stuff will cause you more grief than what you came here to relieve yourself from to begin with anyway. :p


JAP>
 
Doc13067 said:
David,

i looked around a bit but didn’t yet come across what you just showed me. Thank you very much! So it looks as if Peco will run the lines to the meter and I’ll take it from there. If that’s the case it’ll save the home owner a ton. I’ll have him get in touch with them and go from there but either way moving forward I’ll take your advice. Thanks a million.
Click to expand...
Do find out what they require, and what it may cost, vs other possible options.

Here some of the POCO's will require owner/contractor to install a raceway (to their specifications) but they will pull conductors through it and maintain them when necessary down the road. They are likely to pull 4/0 aluminum for 200 amp, but I have seen them pull 350 aluminum for 1200 amp though the load just wasn't at the 1200 amp level they do often require spare raceway for non residential - this allows to pull more conductor in situations like that 1200 amp on 350 if it becomes necessary.
 
Doc13067 said:
Hello all, this is my first post in the forum but I’ve been directed to this site many times in my searches and know you guys know your stuff so thanks in advance for hearing me. I’ve got a job in which I am tasked with running service wires from atop a pole (in Home owner’s back yard) through 2” sch 40 conduit to a meter and in to the 200a main panel and then out through a second underground pipe to a 125a sub panel. I understand I’ll need 3/0 copper or 4/0 aluminum. But do I want thhn or thwn and should the ground be #4 instead of #6?

my plan was to run a 90 at the top of the pole and fish 3 wides through to the meter and then in to the panel, install a ground rod at the pole and at the panel, and then run 4 wires from the main to the sub and obviously bind the main panel but not bond the sub panel. The reason for the ground at the pole is so Peco has the option of grounding the pole when they come out to tie my new Service wires into the triplex.
Click to expand...

If this is a resi service, 2/0 and 1/0 copper is all that is required for 200 amp. #6 to the ground rods (2) 6' apart. This is assuming that you are providing the wire from the pole to the meter. If the POCO is supplying the wire it will be much smaller ALM.
 
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