200 amp to House

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james wuebker

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Iowa
Farm has the meter out on the pole about 120' from the house. This has a main breaker disconnect on it. (240 volts single phase.)Need to feed the house for 200 amp panel. The panel in the house has a main breaker in it. From the pole to the house using only pvc pipe. If I remember correctly I only have to run 3 wires from the outside main to the house. 2 ungrounded & 1 grounded conductor. Shouldn't have to run the 4th wire. At the house put in the ground rod and feed to the panel. The neutral and the grounding wire should be bonded together. Not sure if they are using copper or pvc for water to the house. I most of the time run 4 wire but somewhere in the code book I remember that you only have to use 3 wires feeding the house because the wires would be in pvc and not steel. I'm I correct on this?
Thanks!
Jim
 
You will be able to use either method, depending on a few details.
As long as the house has no metallic paths between it and the pole mounted service, you do not need to install the EGC.
Take a look at 250.32(B)((1) & (2).
 
pierre,
Thanks for the information where to find that. I knew it was somewhere. Again it's all PVC and no steel at all.
Thanks!
Jim
 
brian wisemiller said:
Neutral and ground should be bonded only at first means of disconnect ie at pole. No 4th wire to house. Sink ground at house, do not bond at house.
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Bad. Wrong. Evil.

If the "4th wire", i.e., the EGC, does not travel to the house, you must bond in the house. Otherwise, if a malfunctioning appliance energizes its housing (and thus, the house's EGC system), there will not be enough current flow through the earth to operate the circuit breaker.

This is the whole "one or the other" issue: you must either run the 4th wire or bond at the house. You suggest doing neither.

Besides, if there are not separate EGC and neutral conductors, there is nothing to really bond at the pole; you'd simply be earthing the neutral. Remember, the neutral and EGC are one and the same from the POCO to the service disconnect; only the load side would provide something to bond.
 
OK so if you run the fourth wire, do not bond the panel, keep the neutral and grounds separated? If you run three wires, bond panel and supply ground rods etc.?
 
brian wisemiller said:
Paul B. correct...i would think... but code requires us to sink sep. ground rod for each building here. but at such a run a ground rod would be less cost than wire.
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In that case, you MUST bond the nuetral and ground at the seperate structure[250.32(B)(2)], otherwise there is no effective ground fault current path [250.2, 250.4(A)(5)] and the circuit breaker will not trip in the event of a ground fault.
 
In Shelby Co. if 2 buildings are supplied from same service drop they require us to sink sep ground rod for each structure and bond only at first or main means of disconnect. yet i agree paul b. is correct in theory. i do what they require here to pass insp. though i may not agree.
 
Nobody is arguing that the grounding electrode isn't required...it is.

What you are saying regarding the isolation of the nuetral at the second building (when no EGC is installed) is not only false, it is dangerous! :(
 
RYAN, as i have said before, ?????????????, shelby co code overrides nec. and beleive me this is not the only oddity. I have seen jobs turned down for clearance being turned down for 35 1/2" clearance in front of panel. not to mention panel tags being in blue lettering instead of black??????????
 
Guys, It looks like everyone got off the subject. 1st we have a meter and a main breaker at the pole out on a farm. The customer will be building a house within the next month which is located about 120' away from the pole.There's 2 ground rods there and they are bonded with the neutral and the main disconnect box. From there will run only PVC pipe(no metal at all) to the house that will be built to the house 200 amp panel with a main breaker in it. Only 3 wires will be ran from the pole to the house. 2 ungrounded conductors and a neutral. Will install a ground rod at the house and bond the neutral and the EGC wire from the ground rod together and bond it all to the panel. Most of the time I do run 4 wires but if your running all pvc with no metal in the run you can use only 3 wires. I hope I didn't confuse everyone.
Thanks for all the replies.
Jim
 
Well I hear ya but I don't see where it makes any sense. How is this any different then feeding a sub panel? If I put in a breaker for a main disconnect then run fifteen feet away, I need to run SER (4 wires), I don't see how this is any different. I also do not bond the neutral.
 
Why do you need a disconnect at the pole? Temp power?

Since all of the conductors are outside of the building, no disconnect is required.

In my area, it's common to mount the meter on a remote pedestal (for astethic reasons) and we do not use a disconnect on the pedestal.
 
Paul B said:
How is this any different then feeding a sub panel? If I put in a breaker for a main disconnect then run fifteen feet away, I need to run SER (4 wires), I don't see how this is any different. I also do not bond the neutral.
Click to expand...

Pierre settled this accurately in his first reply to this thread. James' options are, as he surmised, to either (a) run 3 wire (with no other metallic path) from pole to the house and bond neutral at the house, or (b) run 4 wires and don't bond neutral at the house.

Either is acceptable per NEC.

Mixing them up, however, is not acceptable per NEC:

Brian W's situation (3 wires, no bonding) scares me, but Larry already articulated my discomfort so I won't drag it out. I'm just curious who Brian's AHJ is and whether their "ruling" on this is published...?

--

Chris Knight
Syracuse NY
 
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