200A main panels are no longer legal in California?

A

Alexis

Member
Location
Los Angeles
Hello,

I just had an inspection for one of my standard 200A main panel upgrades and just got a correction for the title 24 California Energy Code that the bus bar must be rated 225A. I've been installing hundreds of these standard siemens 200A non solar ready type in here and had no issues with any inspections until this one.

The code that he quoted is 2022 California Energy Code 150.0.s.3 for energy storage preparation. https://www.energy.ca.gov/programs-...y-standards/energy-code-support-center/2022-1

Doesn't is mean that all the standard 200A panels we are installing here in California are not legal to install now? All must be 225A bus bar rated?

Thank you!
 
Alexis said:
All must be 225A bus bar rated?
Click to expand...
Manufacturers rarely make different size bus bars. They usually use the largest size that fits in their panel boards, and then rate them based on an installed main breaker or set of lugs.

So, if the panel you have been using is available in any 225A configuration it extremely probable your standard 200A panel is actually supplied with 225A bussing as standard.

Ask your supplier.
 
Alexis said:
Hello,

I just had an inspection for one of my standard 200A main panel upgrades and just got a correction for the title 24 California Energy Code that the bus bar must be rated 225A. I've been installing hundreds of these standard siemens 200A non solar ready type in here and had no issues with any inspections until this one.

The code that he quoted is 2022 California Energy Code 150.0.s.3 for energy storage preparation. https://www.energy.ca.gov/programs-...y-standards/energy-code-support-center/2022-1

Doesn't is mean that all the standard 200A panels we are installing here in California are not legal to install now? All must be 225A bus bar rated?

Thank you!
Click to expand...
The CA energy code sucks, it's poorly written and hard to navigate. The inspector is citing the correct section IF it were new construction, Check out the note at the beginning of subchapter 7 (150.0):
IMG_2956.jpg
 
Alexis said:
Hello,

I just had an inspection for one of my standard 200A main panel upgrades and just got a correction for the title 24 California Energy Code that the bus bar must be rated 225A. I've been installing hundreds of these standard siemens 200A non solar ready type in here and had no issues with any inspections until this one.
Click to expand...
You may want to carefully double check the panel you installed. Most if not all Siemens 200A panels have 225A bus bars
 
Joe.B said:
The inspector is citing the correct section IF it were new construction, Check out the note at the beginning of subchapter 7 (150.0):
Click to expand...
And a simple panel changeout is an alteration per the definitions in 100.1, so 150.2(b) is applicable. 150.2(b)(1) is the prescriptive method of compliance, and it calls out various portions of 150.0 that apply to various types of alterations. But nothing in 150.2(b)(1) references 150.0(s), so 150.0(s) does not apply to alterations.

Cheers, Wayne
 
wwhitney said:
And a simple panel changeout is an alteration per the definitions in 100.1, so 150.2(b) is applicable. 150.2(b)(1) is the prescriptive method of compliance, and it calls out various portions of 150.0 that apply to various types of alterations. But nothing in 150.2(b)(1) references 150.0(s), so 150.0(s) does not apply to alterations.

Cheers, Wayne
Click to expand...
That's a better way of saying it, thanks.
Alexis said:
Thank you so much! I will try to fight that
Click to expand...
Use what @wwhitney said here.
 
I'm very grateful for all of your contributions!

It is quite hard to deal with all the different regulations here in SoCal. I'm near LA, and I have to comply with various "cities" regulations in and around Los Angeles.. within 40 miles of my work range I have 39 business licences in 39 different "cities" that are independently incorporated.. all of them have different local codes and all different inspectors.. even one permitted job in one city requires business licence.. this is just ridiculous sometimes.. that all is also split between Edison and LADWP utility providers, which adds another layer of fun to this pie of stupidity
 
Alexis said:
I'm very grateful for all of your contributions!

It is quite hard to deal with all the different regulations here in SoCal. I'm near LA, and I have to comply with various "cities" regulations in and around Los Angeles.. within 40 miles of my work range I have 39 business licences in 39 different "cities" that are independently incorporated.. all of them have different local codes and all different inspectors.. even one permitted job in one city requires business licence.. this is just ridiculous sometimes.. that all is also split between Edison and LADWP utility providers, which adds another layer of fun to this pie of stupidity
Click to expand...
All those cities must follow the same California codes, and any ammendments they enforce must be filed with the state. It's not a bad practice if some inspector says there's a local code to politely ask him where you can look it up. Some of what you're encountering may just be different emphasizing of enforcement from town to town.
 
Alexis said:
The panel we used is Siemens MC2040B1200EFC. I think it is 200A bus..
Click to expand...
Yeah, that is what their cutsheet says.
Likely because of the 200A meter socket, it is not offered in a 225A version.
In equipment like panels, the UL amp rating is often sized based on heat rise and not physical bus dimensions.

I would still contact Siemens. They are not going to want to miss out on the CA market.
 
jim dungar said:
Yeah, that is what their cutsheet says.
Likely because of the 200A meter socket, it is not offered in a 225A version.
Click to expand...
Nah, there are several meter/main combos with 225A busses and 200A meter sockets.

I would still contact Siemens. They are not going to want to miss out on the CA market.
Click to expand...
MC2442B1200EFV
There may be others.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top