If you extend an FP residential circuit to add an outlet you’d now have to make the whole circuit Afci compliant. Could you do that with a DF Afci Feed Thru outlet at the fp panel ?
2014 & AFCIs
- Thread starter Ponchik
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If you extend an FP residential circuit to add an outlet you’d now have to make the whole circuit Afci compliant. Could you do that with a DF Afci Feed Thru outlet at the fp panel ?
what is DF feed through outlet and what is FP circuit?
al hildenbrand
Senior Member
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- Minnesota
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- Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
DF = Dual Function, and in this case is being thought of with respect to an Outlet Branch Circuit AFCI / GFCI Receptacle Device.
FP = ?? :?
Fire Place
Flag Pole
Fractal Picture . . .
Wyreman, the OP question relates to 2014 NEC 210.12(A).
Your question in #21 is a 210.12(B) question.
al hildenbrand
Senior Member
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- Minnesota
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- Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
If you are doing this under the 2014 NEC, 210.12(B) is the passage that is the rule about adding an outlet to at existing branch circuit, and the rule permits placing an OBC (Outlet Branch Circuit) AFCI at the first receptacle outlet of the existing branch circuit. Period.
In the 2017 NEC, the rule is moved over to 210.12(D), but it is the same rule.
In my opinion, there are two "first receptacle outlets", the one near the overcurrent protective device, and the one closest to the beginning of the extension or modification. I generally find it easier to start the extension at an existing receptacle outlet and place the OBC AFCI there.
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
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- Henrico County, VA
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- Electrical Contractor
I remember a requirement that an AFCI device other than a breaker be placed in a box near the panel and supplied through a metallic raceway. Has that been removed?
al hildenbrand
Senior Member
- Location
- Minnesota
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
Look to 210.12(A) for that. It has never been part of the "Extensions or Modifications" rule.
Greetings FP Stab lok, Aka Federal Noark AKA Federal pioneer NOW Schneider Electric (also Square D) AFCI breakers are available at big orange box stores up North:
https://www.homedepot.ca/en/home/p.single-pole-15-amp-stab-lok-arc-fault-circuit-interrupter-breaker.1000112733.html
A few FP two pole breakers had a glitch in the late 1970's got bad press and deserved it, problem got fixed, fixed breakers had 'pink dot' from then on in 80's but alas brand never recovered so not sold in US markets. Same internals as Square D.
Many old breakers are not marked so 5kAIC interrupting rating (NEC 110). Utility comes along in 1990's puts in more energy efficient transformer tells no one as they are not required to, now 15-20 kAIC fault current exceeds old breakers original rating. Breaker trips blows apart. Manufacturer blamed for 40 year old 5kAIC breaker blowing apart with 25kVA energy saving transformer 18kAIC.
Code did not get serious about fault current till 1975.
Newer FP breakers have 10kAIC rating. UBI replacements even do. Still not enough to be used as one of the 6 'Mains' in a split buss panel with modern utility transformer.
Its dead brands like Zinsco and Pushmatic where you need 2 ckt sub panel for AFCI.
Zinsco breakers came with copper buss clip or Aluminium Zinsco MFR instructions state use proper clip for buss, I.E. copper-copper or aluminium-aluminium. Zinsco Panels accept both types people dont read. Dissimilar metals corrode buss. Panel fire and failure.
Meanwhile Europe and the rest of the world discovers a 20ma GFCI does the same thing as an AFCI and cost 1/3 as much.
Just my 2 cents.
Cheers
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