2017 NEC where a residential AFCI is not required

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mlnk

Senior Member
So in the 2017 Code, I think the only AFCI exceptions are:

1. Fire sprinkler alarm which is fed from panel with a metal conduit to a metal box. (no GFCI either)

2. Home protection systems that are monitored off site. Usually include smoke and burglar alarms. (no GFCI either)
conduit not required for home protection system circuit.

3. 240 volt circuits.
 

ramsy

Roger Ruhle dba NoFixNoPay
Location
LA basin, CA
Occupation
Service Electrician 2020 NEC
Am I reading this wrong, or is there a general dislike of AFCI's

Ignorance may best describe lazy panel flippers, who don't like making AFCI's work, and are getting red-tagged per NEC 110.7.

Existing MWBC's are too much trouble for panel flippers, much less loose or miss-wired outlets, and never a crawl-space junction causing ground faults. That's for attic rats, which is beneath the elite panel flipper.
 

Adamjamma

Senior Member
"Dislike" would be a tremendous understatement. :happyyes:
Based upon my limited understanding of them from the various papers I have tried to read through, they are a gimmick foisted upon us in the name of safety yet do not really do what they say they do. There are other ways to solve the problem and the AFCI is just a bandaid being applied to a broken leg...
 

peter d

Senior Member
Location
New England
Based upon my limited understanding of them from the various papers I have tried to read through, they are a gimmick foisted upon us in the name of safety yet do not really do what they say they do. There are other ways to solve the problem and the AFCI is just a bandaid being applied to a broken leg...

They are a joke, a scam and a blight on the industry. I would be perfectly happy for the AFCI to be scrapped tomorrow and replaced with 5 mA GFCI protection for all outlet circuits at branch circuit origin.
 

Adamjamma

Senior Member
there was a guy in Germany if I recall that was supposedly creating a system that went into the outlets and switches, at manufacture, and sent a signal back to an alarm in the panel, that would alert if the wires went to a certain temperature, and disconnect the electrical system if another temperature was reached... was supposedly cheaper and more accurate than the AFCI systems in testing... but the industry does not want to make all the new plugs and outlets contain the system, supposedly. only based upon temperature rise over a set time.
 

peter d

Senior Member
Location
New England
there was a guy in Germany if I recall that was supposedly creating a system that went into the outlets and switches, at manufacture, and sent a signal back to an alarm in the panel, that would alert if the wires went to a certain temperature, and disconnect the electrical system if another temperature was reached... was supposedly cheaper and more accurate than the AFCI systems in testing... but the industry does not want to make all the new plugs and outlets contain the system, supposedly. only based upon temperature rise over a set time.

That's the dumbest and worst idea ever. I hate needless complexity. That's a solution looking for a problem.
 

JFletcher

Senior Member
Location
Williamsburg, VA
By code, they are not required in 40 yard dumpsters, although that is definitely the best application for them.

I have no problem with AFCIs not being compatible with older wiring methods, or carelessly installed devices.

What I do have a problem with is that they do not stop arc faults, cannot stop arc fault or glowing connections, have sometimes maddening and unexplainable glitches with appliances, only serve to increase perceived safety rather than actual safety, cost $35 vs $4, and the majority of states have adopted the NEC as is with no amendments to these things.

As Virginia residential is under the 2012 IRC, afci breakers are only required here for bedroom outlets in single-family dwellings.
 

JFletcher

Senior Member
Location
Williamsburg, VA
there was a guy in Germany if I recall that was supposedly creating a system that went into the outlets and switches, at manufacture, and sent a signal back to an alarm in the panel, that would alert if the wires went to a certain temperature, and disconnect the electrical system if another temperature was reached... was supposedly cheaper and more accurate than the AFCI systems in testing... but the industry does not want to make all the new plugs and outlets contain the system, supposedly. only based upon temperature rise over a set time.

A small bimetallic strip in the receptacle itself to either open the circuit under extreme heat or make it contact ground so that a standard GFCI breaker would trip would be much simpler than what he is trying to design.

You do not need an electrical system that resembles a BMW. A poster here has a sig line that says 'brevity is the soul of wit', with which I agree. To that end, simplicity is the soul of engineering.
 

Adamjamma

Senior Member
well, apparently AFCi misses many actual faults because the signal of them is too similar to other normal situations... but the arc faults all create heat at the fault... and most are at the receptacle, or switch, except for those that occur due to improper installation of staples on NM cable and other such cables...

So, in the type of installs that I am mostly involved in, that use conduits, I can rule out NM cables being compressed under staples, thus at least for me, most Arc Faults will be involving loose wires at receptacles and switches, or will involve no bushing situations that damage the wires or improper stripping of insulation... all of which make my tracking down problems a whole heck of a lot easier than what the average North American electrician will need to look for. Thus, the idea makes a bit more sense for installs like mine, but, I can also see signs of problems by using a heat camera to look at the wires as well...

But, in other areas where more NM wires are installed, like in wood frame buildings, there are more cases of cable failure that causes arc fault, due to the staples being overdriven. Or missed strikes of the hammer bruising the cable. All of which are shown in the various reports. This is why it was suggested in a few reports that I saw that one could use AFCI at the breaker box and put GFCI after that, at the first outlet... possibly even using AFCI to cover several circuits much as a surge protector does, rather than needing put on each individual circuit, but the panel manufacturers do not want to do it that way.
 

JFletcher

Senior Member
Location
Williamsburg, VA
Adam, while I agree with your post, it would be much simpler to mandate insulated staples that cannot be over driven. The average residential job, that might amount to $3 more material cost.

As to the original posters number one point, how can smoke alarms not be on an afci circuit when they are required in bedrooms, and those are all outlets? What is the specific exemption in the 2017 code that says smoke alarm circuits either don't have to be or cannot be afci protected?
 

Adamjamma

Senior Member
not sure about that one myself but... didnt I read in the same code that the fire alarm stuff now has to be gfci'd???

Personally, I am not sure why the difference between USA andEurope on the GFCI RCD stuff... 240 volts in Europe yet most residential is only 30ma..not the 5 of the USA... and the RCD covers 5 or 6 breakers at one time... Means more splits of the panel... but less cost for RCD.
 
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