2020 Code - Ceiling fans in bedrooms

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jeff48356

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Livonia, Michigan
Since the Code now requires ceiling-fan rated boxes installed in bedrooms, does that mean that they finally did away with the option to cheap-out by installing only a receptacle controlled by a switch without any permanent lighting? Or is it written to mean that if the builder chooses to install a fixture box in the ceiling (rather than just a switched receptacle), then it must be fan-rated?
 
don_resqcapt19

don_resqcapt19

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Illinois
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retired electrician
rc/retired said:
What code section requires a ceiling fan rated box in bedrooms?
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314.27(C) in the 2020 code.
....
Outlet boxes mounted in the ceilings of habitable rooms of dwelling occupancies in a location acceptable for the installation of a ceiling-suspended (paddle) fan shall comply with one of the following:
  • (1)Listed for the sole support of ceiling-suspended (paddle) fans
  • (2)An outlet box complying with the applicable requirements of 314.27 and providing access to structural framing capable of supporting of a ceiling-suspended (paddle) fan bracket or equivalent
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In the 2017 code, that was only required where a spare switched conductor was run to the ceiling box.
 
don_resqcapt19

don_resqcapt19

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jeff48356 said:
Since the Code now requires ceiling-fan rated boxes installed in bedrooms, does that mean that they finally did away with the option to cheap-out by installing only a receptacle controlled by a switch without any permanent lighting? Or is it written to mean that if the builder chooses to install a fixture box in the ceiling (rather than just a switched receptacle), then it must be fan-rated?
Click to expand...
There is no change in the requirement for a lighting outlet in a bedroom, so there is no code requirement to install a ceiling lighting outlet. The rule only says that if you do install one in a location where it would be possible to install a ceiling fan, that the box
  • 1)Listed for the sole support of ceiling-suspended (paddle) fans (or)
  • (2)An outlet box complying with the applicable requirements of 314.27 and providing access to structural framing capable of supporting of a ceiling-suspended (paddle) fan bracket or equivalent
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Might be a good design decision to install a fan rated box, but is one more place where NEC that claims it isn't a design manual attempts to be a design manual.

For years a fan rated box wasn't required anyway, only if box was what was supporting the fan, if you could support the fan independently from the box that was fine.
 
don_resqcapt19

don_resqcapt19

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Illinois
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kwired said:
....

For years a fan rated box wasn't required anyway, only if box was what was supporting the fan, if you could support the fan independently from the box that was fine.
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List item (2) in 314.27(C) still permits the fan to be supported from the structure and does not require a fan rated box where that is possible.
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
don_resqcapt19 said:
List item (2) in 314.27(C) still permits the fan to be supported from the structure and does not require a fan rated box where that is possible.
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Have to check out what may have changed in 2020, but the way things are worded in 2017 it pretty much requires a fan rated box or other fan support system if you have more than one switched ungrounded conductor present in the box.

I think that goes beyond the last sentence of 90.1(A). If there is a way to support the fan independently from the outlet box this should not be a requirement.
 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

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Chapel Hill, NC
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kwired said:
I think that goes beyond the last sentence of 90.1(A). If there is a way to support the fan independently from the outlet box this should not be a requirement.
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I believe the cmp realized that down the road a homeowner will try and install a fan and they will not realize they can support the fan to the framing so they will support it to the box. This IMO, is the reason for requiring the fan rated box
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Dennis Alwon said:
I believe the cmp realized that down the road a homeowner will try and install a fan and they will not realize they can support the fan to the framing so they will support it to the box. This IMO, is the reason for requiring the fan rated box
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Still a design issue more than a code issue. What else will they do wrong because they don't know any better?
 
James L

James L

Senior Member
Location
Kansas Cty, Mo, USA
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Electrician
Dennis Alwon said:
I believe the cmp realized that down the road a homeowner will try and install a fan and they will not realize they can support the fan to the framing so they will support it to the box. This IMO, is the reason for requiring the fan rated box
Click to expand...
I have a job right now, whole house remodel.
Home built in 2000

We just demo'd all the light fixtures, can trims, device plates, etc for patching and painting.

Each bedroom had a ceiling fan and 2 switches.
We didn't know until demo that the box is a standard fiberglass nail-on.

Must be changed now.
 
M

MasonF

Member
Location
Iowa
Occupation
Master Electrician
This would be fairly uncommon but the fan could just be a fan, not a fan light combo the way the code is written. That said the switched receptacle could still be the light source if chosen.
 
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MattG0311

Senior Member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
Apprentice Wireman
How about a bedroom with a suspended ceiling above it? Are you required to add a fan rated box? I know they make them but it’s kind of tough install during rough in. The floor joists above are easily accessible
 
N

norcal

Senior Member
James L said:
I have a job right now, whole house remodel.
Home built in 2000

We just demo'd all the light fixtures, can trims, device plates, etc for patching and painting.

Each bedroom had a ceiling fan and 2 switches.
We didn't know until demo that the box is a standard fiberglass nail-on.

Must be changed now.
Click to expand...
Rental had cut-in plastic ceiling boxes & rental quality fixtures, (cheap) tenants took it upon themselves to hang ceiling fans on them, let's just say I was not happy, fan rated boxes have been installed in a couple of bedroom since.
 
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