2020 NEC 210.8(F)

[MNSparky]

We do a lot of wiring for HVAC contractors as far as reconnects and new installations, we do not preview any of them and the HVAC salesperson is usually worthless in getting us info so we go into nearly all of them blind. I'm trying to think outside the box for a solution to the new 210.8(F) that requires GFCI protection for exterior outlets (other than lighting) which of course includes ACs and ductless units. We run into all different brands of panels so carrying all the different brands and amp ratings in GFCI breakers will be a crazy amount of money to carry on each truck. Not to mention there are those panels that we can't get a gfci breaker for (FPE, Bulldog, fuse, Zinnsco, etc).

The idea I came up with is use a Spa panel in place of the disconnect for the equipment. We could size the breaker in the panel to the required size per the equipment and use the spa panel with built in 50amp GFCI breaker as the GFCI protection. My question is does the GFCI breaker need a neutral run back to the panel to operate correctly? In other words, will it operate correctly if the white pigtail that comes off the breaker is capped as we wouldn't have a neutral at the equipment on reconnect situations?

Or does anyone else have a better idea?

 

[texie]

The lack of a neutral will prevent this from being an option. I'm not sure how an AHJ can require a change to GFCI if it would require changing a panel just for A/C condensing unit replacement.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

The gfci will need a neutral so your system will not work...

 

[GoldDigger]

The gfci will need a neutral so your system will not work...

There may be some two pole, 240V smart breakers that power their electronics line-to-line instead of line to neutral, but just try figuring out which ones from the specifications.
If anybody identifies such, please post the info.

 

[MNSparky]

The gfci will need a neutral so your system will not work...

That's what I was thinking and afraid of, thank you for confirming. Here's another question: Will they work properly if the pigtail is connected to the neutral bus but there is no load neutral? I've done this in the past with heat trace cable with no issues but I've never found anywhere stating it needs a load neutral or still works without and the supplier has just shrugged their shoulders so I've never found out for sure. I know a 120v GFCI monitors current from line to neutral, the two pole must monitor from line to line right? So if my thinking is correct, we can use a common 2 pole GFCI breaker for loads that have no neutral. If I'm correct, we can still use the spa panel for new installs (we would need to run a neutral) or we can add it as a sidecar next to the panel where a neutral is readily available.

Texie is right about the panel changeout situation but the the code still needs to be complied with. That's where we need to get creative sometimes. Changing a panel is now a tipping point for a game of expensive dominoes. If you change a panel, you need to include whole house surge protection now, and the power company (Xcel) requires the meter base be upgraded to a bypass style if the panel is changed. Changing the meter base will trigger the need for the exterior emergency disconnect which add another pile of money. That's a big bill to throw on top of the bill for replacing a condensing unit.

 

[ActionDave]

No neutral load is needed for two pole GFCI to work.