2020 vs 2023 Resi

[kwired]

210.8(a)(6) is gfci protection of all kitchen receptacles, and 210.8(d) referred you to 422.5(a) in 2020 it didn’t include the 12 specific appliances til 2023
Are you referring to 210.8(f) ??

The appliances (1 - 7) were in art 422 but simply were moved to 210.8 so nothing you actually did changed just where the requirement was located. Appliances 8-12, may or may not required GFCI protection before depending on circumstances of individual applications and for most part only was even a consideration if cord and plug connected appliance. 2023 GFCI protection became required regardless - with no good justification for this requirement to apply as a general rule for all installations of those appliances.

 

[Jaybone812]

The appliances (1 - 7) were in art 422 but simply were moved to 210.8 so nothing you actually did changed just where the requirement was located. Appliances 8-12, may or may not required GFCI protection before depending on circumstances of individual applications and for most part only was even a consideration if cord and plug connected appliance. 2023 GFCI protection became required regardless - with no good justification for this requirement to apply as a general rule for all installations of those appliances.

Yea I know they were in 422.5(a) maybe you misread my post I meant 210.8(d) did not include any of the 12 specific appliances they referred you to 422.5(a) and in 2023 210.8(d) included the 7 from 422.5(a) and added 5 more to make it 12 ,
And you’re right they may or may not have required gfci protection before that was dictated by location and type of connection but now the outlet that supplies these appliances must be gfci protected regardless of location and connection
In agreement there was really no technical merit for this was simply addressing the change that’s all

 

[kwired]

In agreement there was really no technical merit for this

IMO there wasn't enough justification for nearly any changed involving GFCI protection requirements since about 2008 NEC. Most were more of a "because we can" reason. The ones that had electrocution incidents that help trigger a change - generally had a compromised or missing EGC in the electrocution incident that likely would have prevented the electrocution. Up until most GFCI requirements that got added to code had some electrocution or at least near call type incident statistics to help justify some problem areas that GFCI could help out with. Now it has turned into pushing "what if's" that generally have low chance of becoming much of an issue and has very few statistics involving such incidents in the past.

The electrocution that helped prompt all outdoor outlets at dwellings then got lifted by a TIA because some AC units don't work on GFCI was from my understanding caused by a missing or improperly installed EGC that would likely have tripped the OCPD had it been installed correctly. This was a result of installer or poor maintenance or something of that nature and not because there is a commonly occurring issue here. With that sort of approach the move should be lets GFCI protect everything, everywhere and at all voltage levels. They know they will get too much push against it so they just push a little bit at a time each new code edition whether it truly is justified or not.