- Location
- Illinois
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- retired electrician
The 2023 First Draft Report has been published a few days early. It is found at nfpa.org/70, and select next edition. The public comment closing date is August 19, 2021.
2023 First Draft Report
- Thread starter don_resqcapt19
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shortcircuit2
Senior Member
- Location
- South of Bawstin
Thanks!
wwhitney
Senior Member
- Location
- Berkeley, CA
- Occupation
- Retired
OK, apparently I don't understand the interface--I can see the First Draft Report in Terraview, see my PIs and the responses, but I don't see how to make a Public Comment. The Public Comments are to be linked to a PI, right? So the option to create one should be on the screen that shows the PI?
Cheers, Wayne
Cheers, Wayne
romex jockey
Senior Member
- Location
- Vermont
- Occupation
- electrician
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Above where you see the First Draft Report, there is a line that says " Submit a Public Comment". You click on that to submit a comment. You really have to use both as you can't see the PIs or the text in legislative style in the version of TeraView where you submit the comments.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
No cost, just register with a name and an email address. If you have registered for the free viewing of the NEC or other NFPA documents, that same registration works for submitting comments.
yesterlectric
Senior Member
- Location
- PA
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- Electrician
No, you just have to agree to the website terms of abuse and privacy encroachment policy, which some may consider “paying.”
Buck Parrish
Senior Member
- Location
- NC & IN
No.. just to be heard ....
wwhitney
Senior Member
- Location
- Berkeley, CA
- Occupation
- Retired
So maybe I'm confused about Public Comments--are they the same format wise as Public Inputs, just relative to the 2023 First Draft rather than relative to the 2020 NEC? Meaning I just go to the First Draft section in question, propose a textual change, and then perhaps in the Public Comment text reference the Public Input involved?
This would allow one to make a Public Comment that has no associated Public Input, is there any point in doing that? Are changes ever made based on Public Comments for issues that didn't get a Public Input?
Cheers, Wayne
[PS For 215.2(A)(1)(a) I'm going to propose adding the text "before the application of any adjustment or correction factors in accordance with 310.14." since the CMP seems to be having trouble understanding the error in the current text.]
wwhitney
Senior Member
- Location
- Berkeley, CA
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- Retired
OK, I slogged through submitting my first Public Comment. So I see now that the interface is the same as for Public Inputs, except at the end one must specify a "related item" which is a previous public input or public comment. So that answered my questions above.
Still a poorly designed interface, when viewing a Public Input, one should be able to hit a button to start writing a Public Comment that is linked to the Public Input shown.
Cheers, Wayne
Still a poorly designed interface, when viewing a Public Input, one should be able to hit a button to start writing a Public Comment that is linked to the Public Input shown.
Cheers, Wayne
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Yes, you go to the submit public comment, and put your comment in. You have to go back to the First Revision report and get the PI and/or the FR number associated with your PC.
It does not prevent you from submitting a comment that is not related to a FR or a resolved PI, but such comments would be "new material". New material is not permitted to be introduced at the comment stage, so no action will be taken on a PC that introduces new material.
brantmacga
Señor Member
- Location
- Georgia
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- Former Child
I think 14 AWG is the standard, and 16 AWG allowed if the conditions of 240.4(D)(2) are met; I just looked up spec sheets on Square D & Eaton breaker, and the smallest acceptable conductor size is 14 AWG. I don't know if its a matter of changing the label, or if there will need to be a physical change to the lug.
brantmacga
Señor Member
- Location
- Georgia
- Occupation
- Former Child
I have a long way to go on reading through it all, but here are a few of my thoughts on what I've read so far.
1) 90.2(D)(5) has specified the NEC doesn't cover utility installations.
About 2-3 months ago, I had confrontation with an inspector who failed my installation due to not liking the way the utility wired their CT metering equipment. I explained it wasn't within his jurisdiction, he blew up, I then blew up, it was ugly. But glad to see they've added this.
This is an interesting change... I guess they're trying to clarify something, but using equally ambiguous terms.
Let's talk about this one.....
Who is going to police the cord-and-plug connected loads?
210.8 (GFCI's) has been expanded.
210.15 prohibits the use of reconditioned AFCI's. ---eyeroll---
210.18 adds the 10A circuit. Why? Lighting? Are we going to see 16/2 NM?
1) 90.2(D)(5) has specified the NEC doesn't cover utility installations.
About 2-3 months ago, I had confrontation with an inspector who failed my installation due to not liking the way the utility wired their CT metering equipment. I explained it wasn't within his jurisdiction, he blew up, I then blew up, it was ugly. But glad to see they've added this.
This is an interesting change... I guess they're trying to clarify something, but using equally ambiguous terms.
Let's talk about this one.....
Who is going to police the cord-and-plug connected loads?
210.8 (GFCI's) has been expanded.
210.15 prohibits the use of reconditioned AFCI's. ---eyeroll---
210.18 adds the 10A circuit. Why? Lighting? Are we going to see 16/2 NM?
I think were entering our second wave of aluminum taking over residential, last one was in the 70's.
Huge push by the Aluminum industry for copper clad aluminum 14/2 NM
Probably all manufactured homes and tract housing will be wired with copper-clad 14/2 and people wont even realize its aluminum.
We had a thread on the 10A circuits here:
10 Amp branch circuits would you use them?
There is some serious research and proposals that would open up the possibility of 10 Amp branch circuits. Changes to 240.6 are proposed to make 10 Amps a standard size breaker (Siemens actually makes a 10A breaker) Companies are getting 14Awg copper clad aluminum listed and proposing it be...
forums.mikeholt.com
I think they should allow 16 AWG copper stranded NM and 16 TFFN also not just copperclad.
So add your public comments
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
There is no real change in 90.2(D)(5). Utility installations, including the metering have been outside the scope of the NEC since before I started in 73.
210.6 is not a change...reads almost exactly the same in the 1999 code.
210.8. There is some expansion for other than dwelling units, but none for dwelling units.
10 amp circuits are to permit the use of 14 AWG copper clad aluminum. While there are 10 amp breakers and 10 amps has been added to the list of standard OCDP sizes in 240.6, there are no 10 amp AFCI breakers, so will not be able to use 10 amp circuits in most parts of a dwelling unit.
210.6 is not a change...reads almost exactly the same in the 1999 code.
210.8. There is some expansion for other than dwelling units, but none for dwelling units.
10 amp circuits are to permit the use of 14 AWG copper clad aluminum. While there are 10 amp breakers and 10 amps has been added to the list of standard OCDP sizes in 240.6, there are no 10 amp AFCI breakers, so will not be able to use 10 amp circuits in most parts of a dwelling unit.
I dont see anything prohibiting 16 AWG copper if the conditions of 240.4(D)(2) are met.
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