2023 First Draft Report

[tortuga]

10 AFCI's have been added to the 2023:

Change to text in current 210.12(A):
All 120-volt, single-phase, 10-, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits supplying
outlets or devices installed in dwelling unit kitchensfamily rooms, dining rooms,
living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreation rooms,
basements, closets, hallways, laundry areas, attics, garages, detached garages and
other ancillary structures such as storage sheds, or similar rooms or areas shall be
protected by any of the means described in 210.12(A)(1) through (6):

 

[don_resqcapt19]

I dont see anything prohibiting 16 AWG copper if the conditions of 240.4(D)(2) are met.

There are no breakers or fuses specifically listed and marked for use with 16 AWG copper, the only OCPD that is currently available is the Class CC fuse. There are no 10 amp AFCI breakers, and their is nothing in the product standard that would permit the listing of a 10 amp AFCI breaker.

 

[wwhitney]

There are no breakers or fuses specifically listed and marked for use with 16 AWG copper, the only OCPD that is currently available is the Class CC fuse. There are no 10 amp AFCI breakers, and their is nothing in the product standard that would permit the listing of a 10 amp AFCI breaker.

So at present you'd have to do something like use a 20A AFCI to supply both sides of a QO230LS holding (2) QO110 breakers. Then use #14 Cu or #12 Cu pigtails to connect #16 Cu conductors to each breaker (or just connect #14 Cu Clad Al directly to the breaker, if the breaker's listing for #14 Cu automatically extends to #14 Cu Clad Al).

Cheers, Wayne

 

[tortuga]

There are no breakers or fuses specifically listed and marked for use with 16 AWG copper, the only OCPD that is currently available is the Class CC fuse. There are no 10 amp AFCI breakers, and their is nothing in the product standard that would permit the listing of a 10 amp AFCI breaker.

Siemens Q110 is listed for two #16 AWG's
They dont have AFCI's yet but i'll bet they will by the time the 2023 code recognizes them

 

[tortuga]

And before Don's asks for a reference Siemens 10Amp breakers are on page 41 see foot note 9

https://digitalcontentcenter.compas.siemens-info.com/SF-17-Sect-01-ALL-web.pdf

"Type QP1, UL listed for 16 AWG conductors and multiple wires."

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Siemens Q110 is listed for two #16 AWG's
They dont have AFCI's yet but i'll bet they will by the time the 2023 code recognizes them

I doubt that they will. There is only a very limited use of 10 amp circuits for dwelling units in the proposed 2023 code. They can only be used for lighting circuits, and I doubt the demand will be there to produce 10 AFCIs.

In addition the product standard for AFCIs would have to be changed to permit 10 amp AFCIs. That is time consuming process, much like changing the NEC.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

And before Don's asks for a reference Siemens 10Amp breakers are on page 41 see foot note 9

https://digitalcontentcenter.compas.siemens-info.com/SF-17-Sect-01-ALL-web.pdf

"Type QP1, UL listed for 16 AWG conductors and multiple wires."

I was not aware of those breakers. Thanks.

I still don't think we well be seeing much in the way of 10 branch circuits.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

In addition, the most common wiring method for dwelling is NM and that standard would also have to be changed to permits 16 AWG copper, or 14 AWG copper clad aluminum.

 

[brantmacga]

I was not aware of those breakers. Thanks.

I still don't think we well be seeing much in the way of 10 branch circuits.

I want to agree with you, but if there any real savings to be had using copper clad AL wiring, I can foresee a day where large production home builders and multi-family contractors will be looking to cut costs any way they can. We might be 20 years from that but seeing as how it’s added to the code, someone is thinking about it.


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[don_resqcapt19]

I want to agree with you, but if there any real savings to be had using copper clad AL wiring, I can foresee a day where large production home builders and multi-family contractors will be looking to cut costs any way they can. We might be 20 years from that but seeing as how it’s added to the code, someone is thinking about it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Why not just aluminum as it is cheaper than copper clad aluminum?

There are no real world issues with small new alloy aluminum conductors and CO/ALR devices. 10 and 12 AWG aluminum is not on the market beacue of the issues that did occur with old aluminum alloy conductors.

 

[mbrooke]

How do public comments work? What happens when I comment on one?

 

[mbrooke]

Also Chapter 9 Table 9 values have not been changed to account 16 AWG copper. How am I going to calc the circuit?